Light ROM 1/LIGHT-ROM 1 (Amiga Library Services)(1994).iso/imagine/text/archive.41

Text File | 1994-10-19 | 572KB | 14,710 lines

read 4283-5000

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4533 Re: make a curve
8/12/93 14:50 26/ RenderStud! <[e-mail]>
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>          It's even useful to create wine glasses etc with spin.  Use the spline
>    to make half your object.  You can push and pull on the shape until you like
>    it.  Then do the extrude deal.  And then sweep that object.
>
>
>
> Boy Wouldn't it be nice if the forms editor used splines?
>
> bill.
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>
>

        Wow.   never thought of that.  If the forms editor used splines
that would be awesome!  In a way it does since you can change the number
of segments.  But it would be better and easier if it did for the actual
slices.  Maybe in a future version....right.... :)



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--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+

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21400.3.1.4534 Re: make a curve
8/12/93 14:40 14/ [e-mail]
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 What I find to be very good is to add an axis, add two points to
it, and add an edge between them.  When you've done this, snap the
two points to exactly the same location.  You can then extrude this
object along a spline curve.  After the extrusion, select all the
points on the extruded object, and select merge from the menu.
This results in a simple curve with no extraneous points, faces,
or edges.
___________________________________________________________________
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Joe Hart          |     ///    Plink: OSS542
Niagara Falls, NY | \\\///  Ham call: WA2SND
                  |  \XX/   AMIGA - Computers for REAL MEN
===================================================================
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4535 Re: Speed of Imagine
8/12/93 09:59 15/ [e-mail] (Paul van der Heu)
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Hi Nikola (Nikola Vukovljak), in <[e-mail]> on Aug 10 you wrote:

 > As far as I know, the 25Mhz '040 is supposed to be as fast as a 50 Mhz DX 486.

a 25 MHz '040 is about as fast as a 50 MHz '486DX2.

Both are clock with 25 MHz and double that (to 50 MHz) internal..


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       Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS
         Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way
            FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - [e-mail]

            ' Givin' them something they can FEEL ' - En Vogue
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4536 Re: Imagine files
8/12/93 21:18 3/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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ah. Thanks very much.

                                                  Rob
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21400.3.1.4537 Re: Speed of Imagine
8/12/93 23:34 47/ [e-mail] (Jason S Birch)
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> Hi Nikola (Nikola Vukovljak), in <[e-mail]> on Aug 10 you wrote:
>
>  > As far as I know, the 25Mhz '040 is supposed to be as fast as a 50 Mhz DX 486.
>
> a 25 MHz '040 is about as fast as a 50 MHz '486DX2.

That depends... Here at uni we have an A4000/040, a 66MHz 486DX/2, and
a 50MHz 486DX. How they compare depends mainly on what compiler you
use, and secondly on what you are doing. For an integer-only benchmark
compiled using gcc the 4000 was less than half the speed of the 50MHz
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486. However, the same program compiled in AmigaE was exactly half the
speed, and with the inner loops hand optimized in assembler the 4000
was almost exactly the same speed as the 50MHz 486. (The 66MHz was
faster than the 50MHz 486 in all tests - probably because they all
fitted into the internal cache.) Floating point, however, showed the
4000 to be almost exactly the same speed as the 66MHz 486 (the same in
one test, and about 10% slower in another). This was using gcc (-O2
-m68040) which I suspect (based on the speed of the code it produces
compared to AmigaE and hand-optimized code) to be a relatively poor
optimizer. (Aside - if anyone knows how well SAS/C 6.2 optimizes, I'd
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be interested - it might be worth buying if it does a good job.)

The conclusion? The 25MHz '040 is a little slower than the 50MHz 486
for integer code, and about the same (or possibly faster) than the
66MHz 486 for floating point code. To get these results, though, you'll
need a pretty clever compiler. Both gcc and Borland C++ 3.1 for the
PC produce very fast code, while the '040 module in gcc seems to be
somewhat less than terrific.

> Both are clock with 25 MHz and double that (to 50 MHz) internal..
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Not according to Skipper Smith (hope I've got the name right - I can't
find my records of his postings, now) from Motorolla. Yes, the '040
*does* have a 50MHz clock fed into it, but it doesn't use it internally
like the 486DX/2 does, ie. it's *not* clock doubled. (I think that clock
is just used for timing.)

> --
>        Paul van der Heu, The MotherShip Connection running DLG BB/OS
>          Home of cOmcOn Productions, Amiga Multimedia in a BIG way
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>             FIDO - 2:280/207.0 , UUCP - [e-mail]

--
Mr Jason Birch                       _--_|\  Internet: [e-mail]
Department of Computer Science      /      \ Tel (work): [phone]
The University of Western Australia *_.--._/ Fax (work): [phone]
Nedlands  W. Australia  6009              v  Tel (home): [phone]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4538 Re: Speed of Imagine
8/13/93 05:34 31/ [e-mail] (Devon Miller)
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From: uunet!cs.uwa.edu.au!jasonb (Jason S Birch)
|                                  Floating point, however, showed the
| 4000 to be almost exactly the same speed as the 66MHz 486 (the same in
| one test, and about 10% slower in another). This was using gcc (-O2
| -m68040) which I suspect (based on the speed of the code it produces
| compared to AmigaE and hand-optimized code) to be a relatively poor
| optimizer.
...
| The conclusion? The 25MHz '040 is a little slower than the 50MHz 486
| for integer code, and about the same (or possibly faster) than the
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| 66MHz 486 for floating point code.

Ah, but the big question is, Will Impulse ship a version of Imagine built
for the '040?

Try you test again, but use -m68020 instead.  That's might be a better test,
given that Imagine.FP is built for the '020, not the '040.

Unfortunately, as you noted, gcc on the amiga does not generate optimal
assembler.  SAS/C 6.x does a much better job.  I would definitely say
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SAS/C is a good buy, besides it will certainly be cheaper to upgrade from
6.x to 6.50, than to buy 6.50 outright.  (FYI, 6.50 will be a C/C++ compiler
and is expected to be out sometime in November, this from Doug Walker of SAS.)

Devon
Devon
--                 ______
Devon Miller       \  __/___   Swamp Thing: "It will never work.  You said it
..!uunet!ibx!devon  \ \    /                 yourself Abby, I'm a plant."
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                        \/                         -- The Return of Swamp Thing
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21400.3.1.4539 Re: Speed of Imagine
8/13/93 07:43 21/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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> (Aside - if anyone knows how well SAS/C 6.2 optimizes, I'd
>be interested - it might be worth buying if it does a good job.)
I heard it was *very* good.  (Not just an overenthusiastic Amiga owners
opinion, but I can't recall the source ;)

> > Both are clock with 25 MHz and double that (to 50 MHz) internal..
>
> Not according to Skipper Smith (hope I've got the name right - I can't
> find my records of his postings, now) from Motorolla. Yes, the '040
> *does* have a 50MHz clock fed into it, but it doesn't use it internally
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> like the 486DX/2 does, ie. it's *not* clock doubled. (I think that clock
> is just used for timing.)

According to the 68040 users manual, the BCLK, or Bus Clock is the clock input
used to derive all bus signal timing.  The PCLK, or Processor CLock, is clock
input used for internal logic timing.  The PCLK frequency is exactly 2X the BCLK
frequency.

What ever that means(It doesn't mean that its actually running twice as fast
as the clock speed, theres a little more to it than that.  But, I don't think
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this is the place to go into any greater detail.)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4540 Re: Speed of Imagine
8/13/93 07:55 27/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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>> Hi Nikola (Nikola Vukovljak), in <[e-mail]> on Aug 10 you wrote:
>> As far as I know, the 25Mhz 040 is supposed to be as fast as a 50 Mhz DX 486.
>> a 25 MHz '040 is about as fast as a 50 MHz '486DX2.
                                               ^^^^^^

> That depends... Here at uni we have an A4000/040, a 66MHz 486DX/2, and
> a 50MHz 486DX. How they compare depends mainly on what compiler you
          ^^^^^
> use, and secondly on what you are doing. For an integer-only benchmark
> compiled using gcc the 4000 was less than half the speed of the 50MHz
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> 486. However, the same program compiled in AmigaE was exactly half the
> speed, and with the inner loops hand optimized in assembler the 4000
> was almost exactly the same speed as the 50MHz 486.

Are you using a 50MHz DX or DX2 for these tests.  If a 25MHz '040 is about
the same speed as a 50Mhz 486 DX2 Then it would make sense that in certain
tests it would run half as fast as a 50Mhz DX.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
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Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering

 He who dies with the most BNC connectors on the back of his Amiga.... WINS!!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4541 Re: make a curve
8/13/93 08:12 16/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|       Wow.   never thought of that.  If the forms editor used splines
|that would be awesome!  In a way it does since you can change the number
|of segments.  But it would be better and easier if it did for the actual
|slices.  Maybe in a future version....right.... :)
|

        Isn't that what Icoons was designed for?  It allows you to create
        shapes using splines and then converts them to polygons for use in
        Imagine.

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       _____________________________^_____________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support                               MailStop: LR24A4
       [e-mail]             Tel: [phone]
                                    .
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4542 Re: Speed of Imagine
8/13/93 08:26 46/ [e-mail] (Jason S Birch)
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> From: uunet!cs.uwa.edu.au!jasonb (Jason S Birch)
> |                                  Floating point, however, showed the
> | 4000 to be almost exactly the same speed as the 66MHz 486 (the same in
> | one test, and about 10% slower in another). This was using gcc (-O2
> | -m68040) which I suspect (based on the speed of the code it produces
> | compared to AmigaE and hand-optimized code) to be a relatively poor
> | optimizer.
> ...
> | The conclusion? The 25MHz '040 is a little slower than the 50MHz 486
> | for integer code, and about the same (or possibly faster) than the
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> | 66MHz 486 for floating point code.
>
> Ah, but the big question is, Will Impulse ship a version of Imagine built
> for the '040?

Aye, there's the rub.

> Try you test again, but use -m68020 instead.  That's might be a better test,
> given that Imagine.FP is built for the '020, not the '040.

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Actually, using -m68020 -m68881 gives exactly the same timings as
-m68040.  Another factor that leads me to doubt gcc's optimizations.

> Unfortunately, as you noted, gcc on the amiga does not generate optimal
> assembler.  SAS/C 6.x does a much better job.  I would definitely say
> SAS/C is a good buy, besides it will certainly be cheaper to upgrade from
> 6.x to 6.50, than to buy 6.50 outright.  (FYI, 6.50 will be a C/C++ compiler
> and is expected to be out sometime in November, this from Doug Walker of SAS.)

Hmm... I think I *will* get it then. Unfortunately, AFAIK, I will have
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to order it from Sydney (or somewhere over east) if I want to get the
student discount. If anyone in WA knows anywhere here that sells SAS/C
at student rates let me know...

> Devon
> --                 ______
> Devon Miller       \  __/___   Swamp Thing: "It will never work.  You said it
> ..!uunet!ibx!devon  \ \    /                 yourself Abby, I'm a plant."
> [e-mail]        \/\  /    Abby:        "That's ok, I'm a vegetarian."
>                         \/                         -- The Return of Swamp Thing
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--
Mr Jason Birch                       _--_|\  Internet: [e-mail]
Department of Computer Science      /      \ Tel (work): [phone]
The University of Western Australia *_.--._/ Fax (work): [phone]
Nedlands  W. Australia  6009              v  Tel (home): [phone]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4543 Re: Speed of Imagine
8/13/93 08:49 49/ [e-mail] (Jason S Birch)
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> >> Hi Nikola (Nikola Vukovljak), in <[e-mail]> on Aug 10 you wrote:
> >> a 25 MHz '040 is about as fast as a 50 MHz '486DX2.
>                                                ^^^^^^
> > That depends... Here at uni we have an A4000/040, a 66MHz 486DX/2, and
> > a 50MHz 486DX. How they compare depends mainly on what compiler you
>           ^^^^^
> > use, and secondly on what you are doing. For an integer-only benchmark
> > compiled using gcc the 4000 was less than half the speed of the 50MHz
> > 486. However, the same program compiled in AmigaE was exactly half the
> > speed, and with the inner loops hand optimized in assembler the 4000
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> > was almost exactly the same speed as the 50MHz 486.
>
> Are you using a 50MHz DX or DX2 for these tests.  If a 25MHz '040 is about
> the same speed as a 50Mhz 486 DX2 Then it would make sense that in certain
> tests it would run half as fast as a 50Mhz DX.

As I said, I used a 50MHz DX. It only ran half the speed when I
compiled using gcc - the same code, when optimized by hand, ran at
almost the same speed as the 50MHz *486DX*. Therefore the CPU's have
similar integer performance, although if you're using gcc you probably
Command:
won't see that.  It still wouldn't make sense to say the 25MHz '040 is
about the same speed as a 50MHz 486DX2 anyway, because on floating
point the '040 roughly equals the *66MHz* 486DX2 *using gcc* (ie. the
CPU can probably go faster with a better optimizer). Therefore the
relative speed will depend on the type of instructions you are
executing. BTW - our 66MHz DX2 outperforms our 50MHz DX in all cases
that we've come across (including real-world tests) so I doubt the
difference between a 50MHz DX2 and a 50MHz DX would be that great. So,
finally, if you *must* rank the 25MHz '040 in with the Intel chips,
then it's a little slower than a 50MHz 486DX for integer and probably
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faster than a 66MHz 486DX2 for floating point. Of course, the *system*
plays a large part in the actual performance you will get - the 4000,
for example, "feels" a lot faster than the other machines mainly
because they all have slow graphics (ISA busses).

Sorry about the waste of bandwidth for those not interested, although
this does have some bearing on the potential performance of Imagine
on both machines if optimized well.

> --
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> David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
>
>  He who dies with the most BNC connectors on the back of his Amiga.... WINS!!

--
Mr Jason Birch                       _--_|\  Internet: [e-mail]
Department of Computer Science      /      \ Tel (work): [phone]
The University of Western Australia *_.--._/ Fax (work): [phone]
Nedlands  W. Australia  6009              v  Tel (home): [phone]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4544 Re: Re[2]: New Newtek thingamabob
8/13/93 10:44 27/ [e-mail] (Scot Schneebeli)
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...much deleted...
>
> It is very fashionable to trash the Pentium, even though (or perhaps
> because) it is going to become the highest volume CPU on the market.
>
...much deleted...
>                                 Marshall

Possibly not. According to one of the industry journals (ACM,IEEE,EE Times,
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Unix World, or Unix Review -- can't remember which) Intel has lost it's
case against AMD. The way is now clear for AMD to make 486s. Intel only
has one plant that can make 486s OR Pentiums. Each wafer can hold 4 Pentiums
or 16(?) 486s. Presently there is more profit in the 486s due to the volume of
sales. So do they stop making the 486s and let AMD take their market share?
Or do they try and make both and lose some of the 486 market while not
producing enough Pentiums to meet the new demand thus driving the Pentium's
price even higher?

I'm interested in the photon based processors(?) that IBM,TI,AT&T,etc. are
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trying to figure out how to mass produce. Order of magnitude faster than
present technology. Beyond realtime raytracing, the software should be able
to figure out what you want from past trends! |^)

--
Scot Schneebeli                       <[e-mail]>

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4545 Re: make a curve
8/13/93 14:06 14/ [e-mail] (Joseph L Lockett)
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Dale R Rogers says:
>Isn't that what Icoons was designed for?  It allows you to create
>shapes using splines and then converts them to polygons for use in
>Imagine.

Is Icoons PD, Shareware, or commercial?  If the former two, can someone
make it available on the Imagine FTP site?  It sounds useful....  Or if
it's commercial, please provide more information.  Thanks!

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Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett | "Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
--------------------------*  sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
[e-mail] |  fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.
--------------------------*-------------------------*------------------------
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21400.3.1.4546 Re: make a curve
8/13/93 17:20 43/ [e-mail]
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> From:          [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
> Subject:       Re: make a curve
> To:            [e-mail] (Imagine Mailing List)
> Date:          Fri, 13 Aug 93 10:12:22 CDT

> | Wow.   never thought of that.  If the forms editor used splines
> |that would be awesome!  In a way it does since you can change the number
> |of segments.  But it would be better and easier if it did for the actual
> |slices.  Maybe in a future version....right.... :)
> |
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>
>   Isn't that what Icoons was designed for?  It allows you to create
>   shapes using splines and then converts them to polygons for use in
>   Imagine.
>
 Hey Thanks for the help everyone;
    I really am getting a grasp of this I now have a working logo
the title on top then a top shaped thing (chrome of course!) and
the two owners names that float around in an orbit in the oppisite
direction of the top I extruded the names to 10 then wrpped them
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around a a large cylinder so they curved with the arc of their orbit.

Now! about all this software? essence, vertex, icoons? I have ordered
vertex 2.0 and essence (did I order essence wrong should I have gotten
a version 2 or 3?). But what is icoons is there a demo?

Last of all (and probably least), as to the already confounding music
of 486/040 across the band, has anyone compared multi tasking? In
other words pseudo parallel processing? a test case might be to send 3
or 4 render jobs to the amiga to process at one time (you know
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background jobs). Then do the same thing on the 486 machine and see
the results (I assume by now MSDOS etc. can multitask) I would really
like to hear the results but I'm much more interrested in getting from
an idea to the render faster. Being able to submit a job then
start on a new project while the other is rendering far outweighs a
few minutes of actual speed from one machine to another on a 14 hr
render.(OH MOM! can I have a desktop crayIII for christmas?).
OK OK I'm blabbering now ....

Anyway thank you all for your help I really appreciate it and yes I
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am having a great time with imagine...
                                                    Lesk

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4547 Re: make a curve
8/13/93 16:36 13/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
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From my experience on both Amiga and PC, there really is no benefit from
rendering one project in the background while working on another at the
same time. While this sounds like a nice idea, some, or rather most, of my
animations/stills use almost all of the system resources while rendering,
unless I'm just doing a small test rendering. Otherwise, if I'm trying to
get an anim done, I'm not going to bog the machine down by multitasking.

Incidentally, MS-DOS is not multitasking, not in the least, nor is
Windows. According to Microsoft, the next version of Windows, code-named
Chicago, will probably *not* have preemptive multitasking built-in. This
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has been rumored for a while, confusing the whole placement of NT. So,
Microsoft nazi's screw up again.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4548 multitasking (was: Re: make a curve)
8/13/93 17:40 30/ [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)
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At  7:36 PM 8/13/93 -0400, Andrew McDonald wrote:
>>From my experience on both Amiga and PC, there really is no benefit from
>rendering one project in the background while working on another at the
>same time. While this sounds like a nice idea, some, or rather most, of my
>animations/stills use almost all of the system resources while rendering,
>unless I'm just doing a small test rendering. Otherwise, if I'm trying to
>get an anim done, I'm not going to bog the machine down by multitasking.

If you lower the priority of your rendering task (say, -1) or raise the
interactive process priority, the system will respond quite well for other
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tasks.  When you're not using processing power for interactive work, then
the rendering gets it.  If you're competing for resources with a task
running at the same priority though, the poor response can be frustrating.
One of the beauties of the Amiga is the extremely low task-switching
overhead which can make background rendering nearly invisible, provided
you've got your priorities right.

Interactive work, such as typing or creating models uses a fraction of the
processing power that a render requires and is work that you would be doing
anyway, sooner or later.  The "bog" factor should be quite small, although
Command:
you may feel that you're contributing to a shorter render time if you leave
the machine alone.  By combining that work with a background render you're
actually maximizing the utility of the computer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy                                     [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.
 Bellevue, Washington                                          [phone]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4549 multitasking (was: Re: make a curve)
8/13/93 20:31 24/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
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>>From my experience on both Amiga and PC, there really is no benefit from
>>rendering one project in the background while working on another at the
>>same time. While this sounds like a nice idea, some, or rather most, of my
>>animations/stills use almost all of the system resources while rendering,
>>unless I'm just doing a small test rendering. Otherwise, if I'm trying to
>>get an anim done, I'm not going to bog the machine down by multitasking.
>
> If you lower the priority of your rendering task (say, -1) or raise the
> interactive process priority, the system will respond quite well for other
> tasks.  When you're not using processing power for interactive work, then
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> the rendering gets it.

This is quite true.  I run Imagine at priority -25 to get it out of the way
of everything else that might be running.  With highspeed communications
(57600 baud) and software development work (i.e. running GNUemacs and SAS/C
6.3 to compile things) going on at the same time, I have found that Imagine
is slowed by no more than 10% to 20% in the worst of cases.
        When all higher priority processes are idle, their CPU impact is
absolutely NIL.  This is the beauty of a prioritized pre-emptive
multitasking system (say that three times fast with ice-cubes in your
Command:
mouth!)

 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4550 Re: make a curve
8/14/93 01:28 26/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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>From my experience on both Amiga and PC, there really is no benefit from
>rendering one project in the background while working on another at the
>same time. While this sounds like a nice idea, some, or rather most, of my
>animations/stills use almost all of the system resources while rendering,
>unless I'm just doing a small test rendering. Otherwise, if I'm trying to
>get an anim done, I'm not going to bog the machine down by multitasking.

     I think you might have a few people contest that statement,
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especially those with only one machine. I, for one, set up scenes, assign
attributes and model while rendering a long animation (2+days on an '040).
Admittidly, I don't like the wait for test renders but find many other
tasks "do-able" while rendering. Each to his own, I suppose.

                                                Christopher

BTW, yes, I do use (and own) other pc's.


Command:

--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4551 essence
8/14/93 01:06 17/ [e-mail]
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     OK, here's the story....

         I've got a 500 frame animation of a fighter (the sci-fi variety)
firing upon another ship. I have a shield appearing (a primative sphere)
when the blasts hit it (mostly transparent with blobf for texture). Problems
arise when I try to use shellturb to show the blast hitting a portion of the
shield. I want to create a ring sweeping from the impact point to the
opposite side of the sphere. Nothing seems to show up on the damned sphere!
I tried using a very narrow "solid" texture and have it morph from one side
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of the sphere to the other, no go, it just turned the whole shield red ;-(.
If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it......

                                      Christopher

ps. Does anyone want to "liberate" their laser blast methods? I'm firing
"bright" teardrops now, there's got to be something better..
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4552 DPS PAR - My review.
8/14/93 10:49 74/ RenderStud! <[e-mail]>
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    Hello to all in Renderland!  I have just gotten my DPS PAR a couple days
ago. Since I know others who read this are thinking of getting one, I
thought I'd post my view of it.  I will try to keep if brief.

MANUAL and INTERFACE
    The manual is very good, and is nice and compact.  The user interface
is equally friendly and has the look of a traditional VTR for playback.
The software takes up very little room on the standard amiga drive, though
it requires at least 1 Meg of RAM to run at all times.
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STILLS and ANIMATION PLAYBACK
    In my 3000/25 with the reccomended Seagate 500 Meg drive I obtained
true 30fps playback.  Very smooth, very good quality.  I have heard that there are problems
playing back at slower speeds, though I haven't encountered that.  You can
also drag the frame bar back and forth and move one frame at a time with
a mouse click.  Using the later...ie: Rewind and Fast Forward the frames
actually go by faster than 30 fps!

    Those that use AREXX will be happy to know that the software has
Command:
and AREXX port so you can sequence playback and so on using it.

    The quality at the highest level Q23 is essentially identical (to me)
to the original image.  For stills, the storage benifits alone are remarkable.
For animations, the program sets the Q level for you.  I have seen it work
at around 19 to 14 depeneding on the image.  14 is pretty acceptable for video
using both composite and SVHS (sorry i can't handle test MII/Betacam output).
However, JPEG type artifacting is still slightly noticable.  The NTSC
composite output is very good and the SVHS was almsot identical to the
RGB from my Firecracker board.
Command:

DEFINCIENCIES
    There are not really too many deficiencies in the device.  However
there are some things that are important to know.  One item is that
animations while they can be looped on playback do not loop without a pause.
That is, if you have a 30 frame anim and play it, there will be about a 1/2
second pause on the last frame.  To do a perfect pause-free loop you must
append the animation to itself x number of times.  The software can do this
quite easily so it is not really a problem, though more drive space gets
eaten this way.
Command:

    Also relating to projects there seems to be no way in the software to
rename projects.  Also, with merging of animations in different projects,
I have not been able to find a way to splice together anims from the different
sub directories.

    Playback speed is normally 30fps, however there is a button to select
slow playback.  As far as I can tell you can only set it to pre-figured
values.  From 30fps to 15fps then 7.5fps and some more down lower.  I would
like to see user adjustable settings here.
Command:

OVERALL
    In all I have to say the PAR is great for 24 bit animations. There
is no longer any hassle of single framing with tape, etc...  and it enables
the animator to easily view the anim, and cut, paste, splice and mutilate
anims into a final piece.  It also has great capacity for still frame
storage.

    One really great thing is everything happens with just the click of
a button.  No longer do you have to wait to decompress JPEG images to show
Command:
as stills.  No longer do you have to wait to load up animations.  Just click
on a still frame and it appears on the output.  Click on an animation, and
the first frame is shown.  Hit play and it goes.  Really nice.

    For those looking for a single frames alternative at a reasonable price,
this is a great product.


--
+======================================================================+
Command:
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4553 In Search of: Monitor Object
8/14/93 17:17 13/ [e-mail] (Adam Benjamin)
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
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Hi fellow Computer heads!

I could have sworn I downloaded a 1084 monitor object a long time back
but now I can't seem to find it.
I need a monitor, and file format will do lightwave,IOB,Sculpt...

If you know of the where abouts of a monitor object please drop me a note
Thanks Much!
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Adam B
[e-mail]  aka  [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4554 subscribe
8/14/93 23:43 1/ Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4555 I now own Imagine 2.0...
8/14/93 23:50 12/ Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 12 (83%)
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Hello?

Ya, and am working on a Piano, still working on Raysequencer
but I am talking about Rayshade stuff on the rayshade-listserv,
just ask Glenn Lewis..

I've been doing some heavy duty rendering on Imagine 2.0
and would like some insight into getting the upgrade to
Imagine 3.0.

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Kiernan

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4556 Imagine Speed Test
8/15/93 05:00 32/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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Ok, you guys using Imagine PC, I have set up a project with which to test
the speed of Imagine on both machines. This will need a bit of
modification on your part regarding paths used, but all of this is
mentioned in the accompanying textfile.

The project has been uploaded to wuarchive.wustl.edu and is in:

systems/amiga/boing/incoming/imagine.

The name of the project: Testing.lzh
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Just to mention to all concerned. I need this test for some info regarding
the speed of Imagine on both the Amiga and the PC as I am likely to be
using both the Amiga and the PC (I now have only Amiga), in the future for
some work.
This test is not being conducted in order to start up another "my
CPU/computer is better than yours" argument.
I just want some hard data.

If you wish to participate, please get hold of the project and E-mail me
Command:
with your results regarding the time it took to render the image.

I will post the results later if anyone is interested.

Thank you.

Nik.

[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4557 error in convert IFF-ILBM
8/15/93 10:28 11/ [e-mail] (Estrada Zamora Jose Estehel-F
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Hi, every body, I need your help, I'm converting an IFF brush to ILBM, but it produce an error reported like this:
IFFC: All intersecting bug 2

I, don'n know what does it mean, wen I click OK, apears the requester like this :
Faceit error: show results ?

when I  click ok the conversion continues, but the result is not good.

What's hapenning ?.

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Thhanks for your help.
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4558 error in convert IFF-ILBM
8/15/93 10:28 11/ [e-mail] (Estrada Zamora Jose Estehel-F
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Hi, every body, I need your help, I'm converting an IFF brush to ILBM, but it produce an error reported like this:
IFFC: All intersecting bug 2

I, don'n know what does it mean, wen I click OK, apears the requester like this :
Faceit error: show results ?

when I  click ok the conversion continues, but the result is not good.

What's hapenning ?.

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Thhanks for your help.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4559 Re: error in convert IFF-ILBM
8/15/93 13:03 20/ RenderStud! <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 20 (50%)
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> Hi, every body, I need your help, I'm converting an IFF brush to ILBM, but it produce an error reported like this:
> IFFC: All intersecting bug 2
>
> I, don'n know what does it mean, wen I click OK, apears the requester like this :
> Faceit error: show results ?
>

        I have had this happen before.  All I could do is to not choose make
Faces and have imagine just create points and edges from the picture.  I then
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had to add faces myself.  Try that.



--
+======================================================================+
|  Michael B. Comet -   Software Engineer / Graphics Artist  - CWRU    |
|  [e-mail]  - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |
+======================================================================+

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4560 Re: DPS PAR - My review.
8/15/93 17:07 8/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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Re: DPS PAR

Have they released a PAL version, or will this work in PAL ?

Nik.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4561 World scouting
8/15/93 07:27 11/ thg2!sb95s125 (Shawn Banks) (Shawn Banks)
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Hello,
     I am looking for any information reguarding Lord Baden-Powell, Brown Sea
Island Camp or the scouting movement.  Send info thru the net or write me at:

Shawn Banks
P.O. Box 107
Freeman Spur, IL 62841-0107
                                                 Thanx,
                                             Shawn Banks

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4562 Re: DPS PAR - My review.
8/16/93 05:50 37/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 37 (27%)
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>     Also relating to projects there seems to be no way in the software to
> rename projects.  Also, with merging of animations in different projects,
> I have not been able to find a way to splice together anims from the different
> sub directories.

The brute force way is to copy the anim to a system hard disk or put it off
on to data tape (tar), and then restore it back to the par in the directory
that contains the other pieces.

>     Playback speed is normally 30fps, however there is a button to select
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> slow playback.  As far as I can tell you can only set it to pre-figured
> values.  From 30fps to 15fps then 7.5fps and some more down lower.  I would
> like to see user adjustable settings here.

I have never gotten the playback speed to have any affect.  This doesn't
bother me too much because I am using a Seagate ST3655A instead of a 3600A
and I am not sure what effect that has on the software, secondly I have not
read the manual entirely so maybe there is something I am not doing properly.

> OVERALL
Command:
>     In all I have to say the PAR is great for 24 bit animations. There
> is no longer any hassle of single framing with tape, etc...  and it enables
> the animator to easily view the anim, and cut, paste, splice and mutilate
> anims into a final piece.  It also has great capacity for still frame
> storage.

An amazing product that has been long overdue.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Command:
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering

 He who dies with the most BNC connectors on the back of his Amiga.... WINS!!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4563 Re: essence
8/16/93 08:23 45/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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(Note: This message was sent to imagine-relay and is being forwarded
       to the list by me. Please remember to check your addresses when
       you reply to a message and have at least a Cc: to [e-mail])

From [e-mail] Sat Aug 14 23:36:39 1993
Subject: Re: essence
To: [e-mail]
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 23:40:59 -0500 (CDT)
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From: Peter Garza <[e-mail]>
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]> from "[e-mail]" at Aug 14, 93 01:06:12 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1005

>
>
>      OK, here's the story....

Command:
> when the blasts hit it (mostly transparent with blobf for texture). Problems
> arise when I try to use shellturb to show the blast hitting a portion of the
> shield. I want to create a ring sweeping from the impact point to the
> opposite side of the sphere. Nothing seems to show up on the damned sphere!

> If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it......

        I guess I'll try my 2 cents worth.  How about using bandturb
or bandfract to do the ring.  You could then morph the Low and High
Trans Start or morph the position of the texture axis to have the ring
Command:
move across the sphere.  From what it sounds like, this might be what
you want.

>
>                                       Christopher
>
> ps. Does anyone want to "liberate" their laser blast methods? I'm firing
> "bright" teardrops now, there's got to be something better..
>

Command:
        That's what I used for my shots.  I'd like to know of
something better too.

Peter Garza
[e-mail]
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4564 setfree uploaded to wuarchive
8/16/93 11:16 18/ [e-mail] (Adam Benjamin)
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Hi all,
Thanks for the help finding the monitor object I hope to have one
uuencoded to me tomorrow.

Alsoo, I just uploaded a picture I did yesterday using Imagine2.0
scenery animator 4 and IMagemaster  (I finally figured out how to use
the BLEND feature of Imagemaster!)
If you liked CHOICE.JPG you will surely like SETFREE.JPG
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These pictures are of a religious nature (nuff said)
setfree.lzh can be found at wuarchive under systems/amiga/incoming/gfx
it is a 704x480 JPEG compressed image
Enjoy!

Adam Benjamin
Christian Animator
[e-mail]    AKA  [e-mail]
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4565 Re: essence(futuristic weapons)
8/16/93 12:11 47/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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> ps. Does anyone want to "liberate" their laser blast methods? I'm firing
> "bright" teardrops now, there's got to be something better..
>
How about using the neon tubing as described in an earlier mail message?  Make
it a little brighter...or...

How about a lightning arc?  Maybe the two ships fighting could have different
weapons.  Cool, I'll have to try this.

I've included the neon and lightning methods so you don't have to go digging:
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---Begin include-----
-for neon-
        1: make your inner cylinder a much darker color such as 200R 0B
0G.

        2: make your outer tube 75% fog and color shifted as well as
more intense such as 255R 50B 100G.

        3: make both items BRIGHT.  The inner tube can be shiny.
Command:

        4: make your outer tube 20% larger than your inner tube.

--from Pete Mancini--
-for lightning-
3. I used Essence to make an electrical arc between two rods, like
something out of Frankenstien's lab.  Start with a plane with 255
R,G,B on Color and a light blue (or whatever color you want the arc)
in Filter.  Then use Ringfract (with the cylinder pointing out of the
plane) with a color of 0 on R,G,B and turn off the filter and reflect
Command:
values.  Put the axis of Ringfract in the middle of the bottom edge of
the plane.  Now use Swapcrf to swap the color and filter values.  Now
when rendered, there should be something similar to an electrical arc
(or maybe some sort of plasma).  To have the arc grow, rotate the
Ringfract axis up or down so that the plane and cylinder do not
intersect at 90 degrees.  If you animate this it looks like the arc
gets taller until the arc breaks (i.e. the plane no longer intersects
Ringfract's cylinder in a curve, but instead in two lines).

--from Peter Garza --
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---End include-----

Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4566 Re: essence
8/16/93 13:09 37/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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>       I guess I'll try my 2 cents worth.  How about using bandturb
>or bandfract to do the ring.  You could then morph the Low and High
>Trans Start or morph the position of the texture axis to have the ring
>move across the sphere.  From what it sounds like, this might be what
>you want.

     The problem arises when I try to use a texture on an object with
filter set at max on all guns. The only ones that will work are those that
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contain both a color AND a filter setting (shellsm and bandsm). None of
the "frac" or "turb" varients contain filter settings (and those are the
ones that look nicest, IMHO). I have something resonable going with
shellsm but wish I could use shellturb. Perhaps one of the swap*  textures
in the utility drawer might help.



>> ps. Does anyone want to "liberate" their laser blast methods? I'm firing
>> "bright" teardrops now, there's got to be something better..
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>>
>
>       That's what I used for my shots.  I'd like to know of
>something better too.

     I figure mapping an animated sequence on an invisable plane might
make something neat, forked lightning or swirling fireballs!


                                               Christopher
Command:


--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4567 Laser Blasts
8/16/93 13:13 24/ [e-mail] (Demo Development Account)
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The way I see them,
        Lasers are the particulate reflections of an intense light.
Effectively, they are not much different from a lighthouse beam, save
the dispersal rate and intensity.  Since we all have read how to make a
LightHOuse (I think it was in someone's tutorial, but I cannot remember if
it was 3rd party or not), the conversion should be simple.
If I remember it, a lighthouse was a conical light with a cone brushmapped with
a translucency bitmap of a gradient with something like this:

..................
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------------------
==================
##################
==================
------------------
..................

So, what one has to do is make this conform to a thinner cone.
There may be an alternate solution by using the fog effects and putting a
conical light inside it.
Command:
-Joe Solinsky

****Countdown to Ohio: 11 days ****
***********************************
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4568 Rumors?
8/16/93 14:05 6/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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has anyone else heard the dark rumors that Imagine 3.0 is not
really "just around the corner"?
at least, the amiga version.....
no ? well, never mind then, must just be a rumor :-)
kevin

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4569 (fwd) Image 1.0 and brushes
8/16/93 14:05 35/ [e-mail] (Brock Norvell)
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Hey people,

  I pulled this message off of the net and forwarded to the list since I am
  unfamiliar with any workings of Imagine before 2.0 and thought maybe
  someone could help this gentleman out..

  Brock


  ------------- Message Begins --------
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Hi,

  Could someone please tell me the proper attribute settings to get a iff
brush to look good in Imagine 1.0. I've tried everything I could think of but
the result is a grainy representation of the original ham pic that I wanted
to place on an object. I must have one of the settings wrong but there are
so many combinations it gets frustrating very quickly. Any help would be
appreciated.

Command:
Stefan Estus
Student Ultrix Manager
[e-mail]
IN%"[e-mail]"

--
/*
   #include <sys/std/disclaimer.h>

   The opinions expressed in the preceding message are mine and mine alone.
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   They do not represent those of my employer, you, my friends, or anyone
   else for that matter.

   [e-mail]
*/
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4570 Re: Rumors?
8/16/93 14:57 20/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
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>
> has anyone else heard the dark rumors that Imagine 3.0 is not
> really "just around the corner"?
> at least, the amiga version.....
> no ? well, never mind then, must just be a rumor :-)
> kevin
>

Yes, if you're referring to the rather long post in c.s.a.g. It
was absolutely frightening. I don't recall the author baking it up with much
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in the way of source references etc... We can only hope.

Hey, Why doesn't Impulse monitor this list to squelch such rumors. Perhaps
if we invited them... I would imagine they know of our existance. But I'll
give them the benefit of doubt and phone them tomorrow to invite them to
join in.

                    | Hey Beavis. Essence-II's Crumpled texture
steve lombardi      | really KICKS ASS.    Mhhh huh. Yea. And those space
[e-mail] | textures don't suck either. Huh.
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4571 Re: essence(futuristic weapons)
8/16/93 18:01 26/ [e-mail] (Christopher Stewart)
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>-for lightning-
>3. I used Essence to make an electrical arc between two rods, like
>something out of Frankenstien's lab.  Start with a plane with 255
>R,G,B on Color and a light blue (or whatever color you want the arc)
>in Filter.  Then use Ringfract (with the cylinder pointing out of the
>plane) with a color of 0 on R,G,B and turn off the filter and reflect
>values.  Put the axis of Ringfract in the middle of the bottom edge of
>the plane.  Now use Swapcrf to swap the color and filter values.  Now
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             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Thanks folks, that's the trick I've been looking for! What would I do
without you ;-). The Enterprise is really going to get it now. I've
whipped up a nice multi-coloured, swirling, transparent shield effect and
needed something to hit it with <grin>. Explosions are next <groan>...


                                              Christopher

Command:

--
....and if there be some harder, better way    [e-mail]
to salvation than to follow that which we      [e-mail]
believe to be good, then are we all damned.    [e-mail]
   Lord Dunsany, "Dom Rodriguez" (1922).
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4572 SF Bay Imagine Contract Work?
8/16/93 21:21 25/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 25 (40%)
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I may have some work modeling and animating using Imagine.  I hope to do
most or all of this myself.  However..I do have this 40-50 hr/week thing
called a job and I could "imagine" myself getting behind the 8-ball to
meet a deadline.

So, I would like to find some folks who would like to subcontract some
of this work, if needed in a pinch.  The key skills required include
ability to animate a human figure (well) and the ability to model
a house or office from a floor plan and verbal description (and
quickly).  Imagine on the Amiga may be fine..but Imagine on the
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PC (hey..put that down!) may be needed.

If you would like to be considered..please drop me an e-mail message
at [e-mail].  Tell me a little of your experience
with Imagine  and your approach to billing.  Then I'd like to see
some of your work.  I'll send a diskette(s) if needed.  Please do
not e-mail files to me.  No need to send your slaved-over objects
(I've had some ripped off myself) either.  I'd like to see a
ham (or dctv) anim which shows off your animating/modeling
ability.   Ray tracing is not needed..I'm more interested in
Command:
seeing the motion and the complexity of the setting.

Oh..and at this time I would only consider folks living on the
SF Peninsula (between SF and San Jose).  Sorry telecommuters.
I want to be able to explain the storyboard in person.  Mike
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4573 Re: essence(futuristic weapons)
8/16/93 21:34 16/ [e-mail] (Suraj Gulrajanai)
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Call up a friend of mine in California regarding sending the computer system
to him and he paying you first.. I'll then have him ship your computer
along with some other stuffs I asked him to get back to me in Thailand..
This should be easier for you.. :)

Please confirm the system (what does the deal include) and everything else
I need to know (how old is your A3000 anyway??)  I'll arrange for the
$750 for you.. Thanks

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CYA

Your friend from THAILAND!

SURAJ

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4574 Essence in PC version ?
8/17/93 08:44 26/ [e-mail] ()
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Hi all!

I wonder if Essence texture are compatible with the PC version of Imagine. This
version has the original textures, but the Texture files seem not to be exactly
the same length on the PC version as on the Amiga version. Can you copy the file
directly, or have you got to buy the PC version of Essence ?

Robin

--
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
      Silicon Graphics

      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
Command:
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-------





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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4575 playianim&stuff
8/17/93 11:00 15/ [e-mail]
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Hi Imagineers;
    I can't seem to create anything but pic's with .000 to xxx
how do I make the kind of anims that just play?
From the project editor/modify I selected the anim switch but nothing
seems to change, no script is created or anything. I read through the
faq I have and couldn't find any info there either(GREAT stuff on
doing glass etc though!). At the beginning of the imagine manual I
read about playianim and another program but they don't seem to do
much more than the project editor itself. I would really like to make
my anim run on the screen so I can show a few people what I've done.
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                                                        Thanks for
                                                         any help
                                                          Lesk
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4576 I spoke too soon: Monitor object
8/17/93 09:40 13/ [e-mail] (Adam Benjamin)
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Looks like I jumped the gun a little the other day.

If someone out there could please PLEASE upload the monitor
object to aminet or boing and let me know that would be great.

I got three other messages of people looking for it but no one seems to
be able to find it.

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Thanks
Adam B

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4577 Re: Essence in PC version ?
8/17/93 09:38 16/ [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
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>>>>> On Tue, 17 Aug 1993 09:44:06 -0600, [e-mail] () said:

Robin> Hi all!

        Howdy!

Robin> I wonder if Essence texture are compatible with the PC version of
Robin> Imagine. This version has the original textures, but the Texture
Robin> files seem not to be exactly the same length on the PC version as
Robin> on the Amiga version. Can you copy the file directly, or have you
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Robin> got to buy the PC version of Essence ?

        Nope, they are not compatible...  I'm a-workin' on the PC
version.  Yes, you will have to purchase the PC version separately.

                                                        -- Glenn
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4578 Re: Rumors?
8/17/93 09:51 6/ "Robert A. Gougher" <[e-mail]>
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> Why doesn't impulse monitor the list?

  They do - but only to flame on people who point out some of imagine's more
disappointing bugs.           :-)

                                                          Rob
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4579 VOTE: SHOULD IMPULSE JOIN THE MAIL LIST
8/17/93 11:28 26/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
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I contacted Impulse today and spoke to Mike Halvorson (sp?) regarding
Impulse joining the mailing list. Quite an amusing conversation to say
the least! The bottom line: Impulse knows of our existence but are
hesitant to join the list based on past experiences on-line. Flame
wars and the like. My renderer is better. you get the idea. We see it
here all the time. According to mike they are not against monitoring this
list for tech support if we as a group want them here. He suggested an Email
vote. I volunteerd to gather the ballots and get back to him within a
week. so....
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HOW TO VOTE=============================================================
Send your vote to [e-mail].  Keep them brief please. Make the
first word of the message YES (I want to see Impulse on this list) or
NO (I don't care to see Impulse on this list) If you feel compelled
to write a justification for your vote, feel free to do so just
try to keep it brief. I'll tally them and Pass the results on to mike.
The deadline to Vote is Next Tuesday (August 24 at 6:00 pm)

IMPORTANT: PLEASE DON'T SEND YOUR VOTES TO THE IMAGINE MAILING LIST!!
Command:
I don't think we need to see 200 YES/NO messages here.


                    | Hey Beavis. Essence-II's Crumpled texture
steve lombardi      | really KICKS ASS.    Mhhh huh. Yea. And those space
[e-mail] | textures don't suck either. Huh.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4580 Re: Rumors?
8/17/93 12:00 42/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Lines 1 to 10 of 42 (23%)
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this is from c.s.a.g.  Steve, can you confirm or deny this.  Perhapes give us
an idea of what is going on?  Impuse finally drop the last straw? Steve?...
Steve???? STEVE!?!?!?!(tee hee ;) Just another %#$@ing rumor?

---------begin include------------
Here's a capture of a message I saw on Rays Tracing Place tonight...

  To: ALL
Refer#: NONE From: RICK BAUMHAUER
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Read: HAS REPLIES Subj: ESSENCE
Status: PUBLIC
MESSAGE Conf: REAL 3DV2 (2)              Read Type: GENERAL (+)

I spoke to Steve Worley on Monday (Aug 9) regarding, among other things,
Imagine 3's "Feature List" and what he will support in the future.  He says
that Lightwave will be his primary area of work (the hooks necessary for
external textures are not yet present, but should be before the end of the
year) and Real3D.  He will continue to support Imagine, but it will not get
"first version" of his stuff any more, ora at least that's the impression I
Command:
got.  Real3D will be supported because it is a dynamic program (unlike
Imagine, which sat for 2 years at V2) and because the Meskanens had the
forethought to make modifying Real fairly easy via RPL and math-based
textures.  Also, according to Steve, the Imagine 3 feature list is "bogus",
only one person is currently running the beta, it's only on the PC at the
moment, and only has 1/3 of the features Impulse is claiming will be present.
 The beta tester expects release somewhere around Christmas, a far cry from
the late August/early September Impulse is claiming.  Impulse seems to be
pulling a "Microsoft", trying to freeze the market before EVERYBODY jumps
ship for currently available programs.  Real3D is now just about the ONLY
Command:
viable program for 3D on the Amiga which doesn't need a $1500 dongle
(Real's is MUCH cheaper!), it just needs an infusion of SPEED......and
outside support such as Worley's and, hopefully, an object converter from
Syndesis/Axiom/Art Machine (makers of Vertex, a decent stand-alone modeller
that also does a very nice job of object conversion).


Hmmmmm....

Andy
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-------------end include---------------
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4581 DPS Personal Animation Recorder...
8/17/93 13:52 20/ "J_GEORGE" <[e-mail]>
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Greetings Imagineers,

        Does anyone out there have any connections that can purchase the
DPS Personal Animation Recorder wholesale? Or if they have any student
discounts on this equipment? I'm currently working on a video project (a series
of Imagine anims and slide show) and financing this operation myself. My
budget is hovering in and around $2000 (if this loan comes through) and I am
currently looking at any and all options necessary to drop these anims to tape
real-time (whether from a special player or frame-by-frame). If anyone has
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done this or knows of any cheaper alternatives to the DPS, please let me know.

Heck, if anyone knows where I could >LEASE< a DPS for a month I'd appreciate
the info. These are the ramblings of a desperate animator. ;-)

                                Help me Obi-wan, you're my only hope...

                                                I\/Iax I\Iomad


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4582 Imagine and the Retina
8/17/93 14:37 28/ Fixed in Previous Release... <[e-mail]>
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        I recently moved to a Retina 4mb board on my A2000 along with a
GVP 040 combo board, overall a nice combination.

        However no matter how hard I try different screen resolutions and
'Extra Colors' for the screen I cannot seem to get Imagine to 'Show' a HAM
picture with good colors, if I use hires or lace everything is very banded.

        If I use RetinaDisplay on the same picture it shows a very nice pic.

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        Does anybody have any suggestions on how to properly use the Retina
board with Imagine?

        I have been planning to try modifying Imagine directly for a larger
screen size, has anybody had any luck with this and what size (values) was
poked into the Imagine executable?


        BTW: Its Retina V1.1 and Imagine V2.0

Command:
        FWIW: a test scene of a faucet running water into a dish with waves
        against a tiled brush map wall background scene ran about twice as
        long on the GVP '040 as compared to a DECpc 466d2lp.  Yet when I
        used a sample POVray sunset scene the PC was about 3 times faster.
        Makes one wonder!

wayne

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4583 Re: Rumors?
8/17/93 17:33 20/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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> >
>
> Yes, if you're referring to the rather long post in c.s.a.g. It
> was absolutely frightening. I don't recall the author baking it up with much
> in the way of source references etc... We can only hope.
>
> Hey, Why doesn't Impulse monitor this list to squelch such rumors. Perhaps
> if we invited them... I would imagine they know of our existance. But I'll
> give them the benefit of doubt and phone them tomorrow to invite them to
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> join in.
>
I rang Impulse on the weekend to order Imagine 3.0 - the Amiga version. I
asked them also when it would be available. They said - in 5 weeks.
Now, they may be telling the truth, then again, maybe not...

Nik.



Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4584 Picture format Question
8/18/93 12:23 34/ [e-mail] (Robin Luiten)
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This is not imagine related but I am hoping someone might be
able to help me identify what picture format the following file
header is.

The following header information appears at the start of a file called office.pic
which is 544156. I would like to know what format this is in

Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas to try ?

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----------------------- FILE HEADER ---------------------------
oconv -f -i modelb.oct window blinds lights lamp picture
rpict -vf model.vp -x 3000 -y 2028 -dp .9 -av .1 .1 .1
VIEW= -vtv -vp 8 36 -27 -vd -0.560723 -0.233635 0.794358 -vu 0 1 0 -vh 39.9 -vv 27.5 -x 3000 -y 2028
pfilt -1 -x 1000 -y 676 -r .67 -e 1.4
EXPOSURE=1.400000e+00
pfilt -1 -x /2 -y /2

-Y 338 +X 500
[file data binary...]
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Thanks...
Robin

  _-_|\      [e-mail]            /Disclaimer:
 /     * <-- Systems Development (AOTC),   /
 \_.-._/     Telecom East Tower Roma St,  /   C references are NULL && void*
      v      Brisbane, Australia.        /
             WORK: [phone]       /
             HOME: [phone]      /
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4585 Imagine3 Rumor
8/18/93 00:01 8/ [e-mail]
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Howdy all...

    I heard a rumor that Imagine 3.0 for the Amiga will be a port of the IBM
version..  If it's true, this is low, even for Impulse.  Does anyone know for
sure?

Carmen Rizzolo - Crazed Artist
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4586 Re: rumors
8/18/93 00:29 37/ [e-mail] (Steve Worley)
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Uhoh, time I posted to clear up some things, especially after this
third-hand rumor appeared on csa.graphics.

Put simply, I know nothing whatsoever about Imagine 3.0. I do not have
a beta copy, and Impulse has not offered me one. I HAVE asked Mike
Halvorson for any new texture/object/file formats (which he says he is
happy to share...) but haven't gotten anything from him yet. (Has
anyone else?)

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So in regards to what features will finally end up in Imagine 3.0, I
cannot say at all. I haven't been told, and do not have any special
insider information.

Whether Imagine 3.0 will work with current textures, I don't know.

When Imagine 3.0 will ship? Mike Halvorson told me that it would be
Monday, August 23, 1993. I am inclined to think that this date is
overly optimistic.

Command:
For people thinking about upgrading, my personal suggestion would be
to wait for a report on this mailing list from the first people to get
3.0, then decide if you want to upgrade. I would NOT recommend
preordering Imagine, especially if it turns out to be incompatable
with old object and scene files. I would suggest this "wait till it
ships" attitude for almost any major software upgrade, including
Essence Professional (which is rounding out quite nicely, especially
with speed optimization...)

Whenever you have questions about Imagine 3.0, the definative source
Command:
has got to be Impulse itself. Their phone number is 1-800-328-0184.

I'm sorry that I don't have any information about Imagine 3.0. I, too,
am in a "wait-and-see" mode.

-Steve
[e-mail]
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4587 Texture info?
8/17/93 20:44 17/ [e-mail] (Dennis Stone)
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I've looked around and can't find any info on how the Imagine texture
interface works (e.g. Essence).  I think I remember years ago there was
some information floating around on how to write texture code for Turbo
Silver.  Am I mistaken?  Is there any such info for Imagine? (There must
be, how did Essence come about)  Can anyone point me in the right direction?


----------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail]

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"Who are these guys?"  Al Gore pointing to busts of George
            Washington and Benjamin Franklin at Monticello





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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4588 Essence for PC version ?
8/18/93 10:13 27/ [e-mail] ()
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Hi all !

Thank you to all the people who answerded me.
It seems that even the own Impulse texture don't work on the PC version (2.0).

Does anybody know if the Essence textures are going out  for the PC version (we
need them, as we need more machines to do the rendering of VERY long scenes ?

Robin

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--

---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
      Silicon Graphics

      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
                                                       \|/
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                                                       @ @
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-------





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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4589 Imagine for Indigo ?
8/18/93 10:17 29/ [e-mail] ()
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Hi !

I've seen in an ad (in Desktop video magazine, I think), that Impulse is going
to release a version of Imagine for Indigo (and for Indy I hope, if the version
will be compatible with new new OS arriving with Indy, and wich is going to be
released for the whole range of SGI machines).
It could be very nice to be able to turn the object (in the upper-right window
in Imagine) shaded and in real-time. And to do the rendering on an Onyx or a
Challenge with 24 R4400 processors...

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Robin

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      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
      Silicon Graphics

      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
Command:
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-------





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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4590 texture info?
8/18/93 03:36 15/ [e-mail]
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>I've looked around and can't find any info on how the Imagine texture
>interface works (e.g. Essence).  I think I remember years ago there was
>some information floating around on how to write texture code for Turbo
>Silver.  Am I mistaken?  Is there any such info for Imagine? (There must
>be, how did Essence come about)  Can anyone point me in the right direction?

        I have the texture kit ! I got it when I upgraded from Turbo Silver
to turbo Silver SV(I think). I'm not sure because I had to go back and sort
through all my Silver(this makes me think it was on the Original silver disk)
disks to find it. At that time I added to my HD and forgot about it. I believe
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only a few disks with this info were sent out because right after that the
next disk did not contain the info. Anybody with a very early version of
Silver may have it.
                                                                bill

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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4591 Imagine for SGIs
8/18/93 07:56 16/ [e-mail] (Demo Development Account)
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Hello,
        I saw that advertisement as well.  It would be nice to do things
in a little less time, I agree, but there is a slight problem: there is no
way that they can keep that price of around $500. for the SGis.  The reason
is that it would blow everyone who writes SGI modelers out of the water to
have an affordable modeler for that machine.  WHat does the Indy run for?
$5000. ?  That with Imagine would be a nice setup that I would definitely
save my pennies for, unless the other vapor product from Impulse comes (the
rendering engine), which would keep the AMiga in a niche above many other
PCs as being expandable beyond the definition of a microcomputer.
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        Still, may we all turn our hearts towards the day when SGIs are
as affordable as Amigas, or Amigas are as powerful as SGis...
-Joe Solinsky

*****9 more days till the Ohio move *****
*****************************************
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4592 Developer's kit for Imagine
8/18/93 08:06 8/ [e-mail] (Demo Development Account)
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Okay,
        Let's pretend I wanted to write programs that used Imagine objects in
some sort of interactive game (which would obviously not run very fast if
it was on the Amiga).  But let's just say I wanted to.  Oh, call me crazy,
maybe I have the task split up amongst four 040s and some Floating-point units
in four machines.  Would I need licensing to do this?  I'm just kicking
around some ideas here, so nobody get too worried.
-Joe Solinsky
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4593 Re: Texture info?
8/18/93 17:51 15/ "Oxley David" <[e-mail]>
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On Wed, Aug 18, 1993 11:53 am, Dennis Stone wrote:

>I've looked around and can't find any info on how the Imagine texture
>interface works (e.g. Essence). [deleted] ...how did Essence come about...

Surely Essence came about through the hard work and reverse engineering skills
of Messrs Worley and Lewis.  Maybe they'd be the people to contact.

Regards,
David Oxley,
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Logica UK Ltd.




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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4594 Re: Rumors?
8/18/93 13:16 27/ [e-mail]
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> Date:          Wed, 18 Aug 1993 10:33:37 +1000 (EST)
> From:          Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
> Subject:       Re: Rumors?
> To:            "Steve J. Lombardi" <[e-mail]>
> Cc:            [e-mail]

>
> > >
> >
> > Yes, if you're referring to the rather long post in c.s.a.g. It
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> > was absolutely frightening. I don't recall the author baking it up with much
> > in the way of source references etc... We can only hope.
> >
> > Hey, Why doesn't Impulse monitor this list to squelch such rumors. Perhaps
> > if we invited them... I would imagine they know of our existance. But I'll
> > give them the benefit of doubt and phone them tomorrow to invite them to
> > join in.
> >
> I rang Impulse on the weekend to order Imagine 3.0 - the Amiga version. I
> asked them also when it would be available. They said - in 5 weeks.
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> Now, they may be telling the truth, then again, maybe not...
>
> Nik.
>
>
Just a note; I called them a week ago and they said six weeks looks
about right to me guys....
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4595 Re: Rumors again
8/18/93 11:45 31/ [e-mail] (Steve Worley)
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Wow, lots of email replies! A couple of summaries;

The Turbo Silver texture information (from 1987) does exist; we used
this back at the beginning of Essence (circa Jan 1991) to get Turbo
Silver textures to work. The Imagine texture format is different,
though, and we needed to backengineer it. (Impulse told us they would
not share any internal file information at that time.)  The Imagine
texture format is different from Turbo Silver, which is why the
backengineering needed to be done. The Imagine PC (2.0) format is also
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different, and we are currently in the process of backengineering
THAT. (Nope, no help from Impulse here, either..)

Nobody has gotten any file format information from Impulse with regards
to 3.0, though several people have promises.

---

People also asked me about whether we were going to drop Imagine
support for Lightwave, etc. The answer is no, we we certainly will not
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do so! We *WILL* port to Lightwave (and pretty much any other
renderer) when it is capable of using external textures. This will
require a revision of Lightwave (and Real 3D for that matter, to make
complex textures practical) so it might take a while. We're ready and
willing, though, as soon as the hooks are in.

So no, we certainly are not abandoning Imagine. But we also have no
blind loyalty to Imagine or especially Impulse, however.

-Steve
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[e-mail]
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4596 Re: Rumors?
8/18/93 20:15 45/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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I received this from Rick Rodriguez regarding the rumors about Imagine 3
release date.

 On 17 Aug 1993, Rick Rodriguez wrote:

> Nik, part of the problem with this thread is the insinuation that
> Impulse's (or more precisely Mike Halvorson's) miscalculation of shipping
> dates is a deliberate falsehood.  Every software and hardware developer
> does his best to estimate a release date and most see their best estimates
> fall ridiculously short of the mark.  Impulse is only guilty of grossly
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> underestimating development time.  That's it.
>
> The sad part is that if the company succombs to user pressure to get
> the software out the door and the software is not thoroughly debugged,
> users will raise hell.  If Impulse takes another 30 days, users will
> raise hell.  The company can't win!
>
> I, for one, don't want Impulse to repeat the mistake of shipping version
> .9, 1.0 and 1.1 within a few short months.
>
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> Imagine 3.0 is going to knock your socks off.  The program is 100%
> more functional and it includes many features users have been clamoring
> for as well as features nobody has thought of before.
>
> Will it be ready Sept. 1?  No way.  Will it be ready Oct. 1.  Very
> possibly.  If it isn't, you wouldn't have wanted it anyway.  Will it
> be out before year's end?  ABSOLUTELY!  Will it deliver everything
> promised?  COUNT ON IT!  Will users find bugs they didn't catch?
> MOST LIKELY.  How do I end this thing?  I DON'T KNOW!
>
Command:
> Please post this message to the mailing list so that others might read
> it.  I can assure you that I can speak with some authority on this
> subject and I don't have a vested interest either in promoting or doing
> harm to Impulse.  Some of the folks bashing the company seem to have an
> axe to grind which is tainting their postings.
>
> --Rick Rodriguez
> VRS Media
>
There you have it...
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Nik.



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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4597 Impulse Speaks.
8/18/93 20:38 52/ Jonathan Hirschman <[e-mail]>
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Thought y'all might be interested in something posted to CIS in the
Impulse section of AmigaVendor...

#: 62373 S4/Impulse
    18-Aug-93  21:26:18
Sb: Imagine Textures
Fm: Mike Halvorson 74250,774
To: ALL

TO all Imagine users.
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        Just a quick note or update if you will.  Find herein a Partial
list of some of the new textures that will be shipped with Imagine 3.0
This is a "PARTIAL" list and meant only for you users to get a better feel
for some of the goodies that are just around the corner.  I will continue
this information until we release the software in the near future.
Venetian Blinds
        Bumps
        Blocks
        Noise
        Confetti
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        Fire
        Grill
        Marble
        Radial Checks
        Spiral
        Bathroom Tile
        Tiger Tiger
        Woodgrain
        Worms
        Dirty
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        Shingles   (top of house)
        Siding      (Side of house)

        Mind you that this is only a few of the new ones.  Some of the
titles are self explanatory others may need more verbage.  But for the
moment this will have to do, hopefully by this weekend we can post a pic
or two to show off these goodies.
        Finally, thanks for all the support you Imagine users give
Impulse, we do indeed appreciate it.  With your continued support we will
continue to keep you at the front of rendering.
Command:
        As always if you have any questions please give us a call and we
will do what we can to help.

        Happy Renders,

        Mike Halvorson


           //Jonathan,
       \\//via AutoPilot
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4598 From Mike's mouth to your face
8/18/93 21:21 76/ [e-mail]
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Mike Halvorson phoned me tonite and asked me to clear up some rumors
about Imagine 3.0. I told him I would post here anything he cared to
ask me to post. Apparently, something I posted previously, concerning
remarks made by Rick Rodriguez at an Amiga meeting at SIGGRAPH
a couple weeks ago somehow got wildly twisted and distorted when it
ended up on some other service's message base recently and he wanted
me to pass along the following:::

(Again... if you are one of those who likes to shoot the messenger,
please save us both a lot of time and don't.)
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1. Per Mike, Imagine 3.0 for BOTH the PC and Amiga *should* be
released sometime between the middle of August (now) and the middle
of Sept., 1993 (a month from now). Should means hopefully will be.

2. The new manual is being written off-site and may or may not be
done at the same time the software is done. If it's not done, then
those who are upgrading to 3.0 for $100 will get a "what's new"
disk file to read and will be sent the manual when it IS done and
printed. Thus, those who wait and buy off dealers' shelves will
Command:
get product at some date later than upgraders get it.

3. Per Mike, they prefer to develop and compile on a PC platform
because they "like the development tools better - they're faster"
he told me. The source is then moved back to the Amiga and recompiled
and tested there. Thus there is ONE base version of the code being
developed for both platforms at once, with the bulk of the work being
done on the PCs.

4. He told me Imagine 3.0 will come with "50 new textures that
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will blow your mind" such as "fire."

5. He told me that Imagine 3.0's "particle animation system" will
be intuitive and powerful with pre-built algorithms for "wind" and
"rain" and such.

6. He told me that Imagine 3.0 will have "bones" implemented "right."

7. He said that Impulse will not be at the WOCA show in Pasadena
in Sept. because "we're too busy" and he doesn't really enjoy
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answering the usual million questions. I asked him if he would even
make a "stealth" appearance at the show (i.e... come as an
individual and skulk around), and he said no. Too busy.

8. He said that no upgrade money has been cashed or spent yet.
Apparently someone is already yelling "Lawsuit" at Impulse because
of sending in the $100 upgrade fee and not yet receiving product.
He asked me to emphasize that no upgrade money has been cashed yet.
I have utterly no way to verify this statement.

Command:
In fact, I have no way to verify anything that he said. But he
is the President and Owner of Impulse, Inc.; there is no higher
authority at that company above Mike. So you believe what you
wish to believe, and do what you will with the rest.

Mike is quite aware, as one would hope, of all his competition.
He owns all the competing products. He has opinions of all of
them and you could easily guess what those opinions are :)

He is also quite concerned about the Amiga market and the effect
Command:
of piracy of Beta software. This is why no Beta copies of the
Amiga version of Imagine 3.0 are out there in anyone's hands.

So that's basically it.

I'm not on Impulse's payroll. I own and use their products and I'm
glad to pass along what Mike asked me to.. trusted me to.

No, I won't call him back every 5 minutes and ask him specific
questions about Imagine 3.0. It'll be out soon enough and
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we'll all have enough trouble keeping up with the expected
zillion postings a day here anyway, when that happens :)

Regards,
Hara Laser
[e-mail]
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4599 Re:  From Mike's mouth to your face
8/18/93 22:17 5/ [e-mail] (Joseph C Garner)
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21400.3.1.4599 Re:  From Mike's mouth to your face
8/18/93 22:17 5/ [e-mail] (Joseph C Garner)
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Manual at a later date?  aure, sure.  Anyone here, like myself, been around since the silver days?  Remember the same promise made about the silver upgrade?
I got a really shoddy photocopy of a few pages of what looked like a faxed note on how the program should work, with a promise to "Rush me the manual" as soon as it got back from the
printers.  I never saw diddly squat.  If history repeats itself, Imagine will do it again.  (I'm not bashing Impulse, I love Imagine.  I just don't trust 'em)

joe
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...aMailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4600 Re: Impulse speaks
8/18/93 23:34 25/ [e-mail] (Steve Worley)
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Wow, I have gotten even MORE mail about this! This rumor mill cycle is
like a teetertotter ridden by competing weoghtlifters.

Anyway, with regards to this list of new textures in Imagine 3.0, this
is all news to me! They are **NOT** Essence textures. Apex had nothing
to do with their creation. No, I have no idea why Impulse would use
Zack's time to make a suite of textures like this instead of adding
features to the Imagine program itself. Impulse has Essence I and
Essence II; perhaps they were hyped up and wanted to make some of
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their own? Anyway, it should be interesting to see them.

I'll reiterate theifact that I know nothing about Imagine 3.0 at all.
Two people have hypothesised that external texture support will be
REMOVED from Imagine 3.0, which is why Impulse is making this big
library of their own.  In this case there's nothing we (at Apex) can
do.

And no, the "well known author" who is writing the Imagine 3.0 manual
is not me.  I believe Mike is referring to Phillp Saddock.
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-Steve
[e-mail]


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail t: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4601 "Old Films"
8/19/93 02:11 14/ "J_GEORGE" <[e-mail]>
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Has anyone out there experimented with adding scratches/lines/dust to
animated sequences, thus over a grayscale anim would have an 'old movie'
feel to it? It's not something I could picture that would be popular, but
definitely an odd effect. ;-)

I have a few ideas (that have come to mind as I was typing) using ADPro's
composite function and a low-res Deluxe Paint anim.. If anyone has any better
techniques don't hesitate to spill 'em. I'll post my findings if anyone is
interested..
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                               r                        I\/Iax I\Iomad


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4602 re impulse speaks
8/19/93 03:46 44/ [e-mail]
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>Anyway, with regards to this list of new textures in Imagine 3.0, this
>is all news to me! They are **NOT** Essence textures. Apex had nothing
>to do with their creation. No, I have no idea why Impulse would use
>Zack's time to make a suite of textures like this instead of adding
>features to the Imagine program itself. Impulse has Essence I and
>Essence II; perhaps they were hyped up and wanted to make some of
>their own? Anyway, it should be interesting to see them.

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It may very well be that Imagine 3.0 can take advantage of textures
in a way that we havent seen yet. IE: FIRE could turn out to be
a real screen burner that resembles Steves excellent tutorial but
accomplished by just selecting the texture.(just a wild idea). If
this were the case then Impulse would want to include at least a
small set of textures ready to go. Why be suprized they are taking the
time to do them, when all the other players are doing so and hyping
that fact. I love Essence, and Essence II and would hope that they
remain compatable. However if Imagine has even greater potential
then Steve will be able to take advantage of this power. Impulse has
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made the statement they would share the information required. While
I realize Impulse has a rather bad record, I do see an attempt to
change, and feel they should be given the benefit of the doulbt on
this matter.  If someone doesen't like the way the story ends they
can simply buy any of the other products on the market. I own more
than one now, but tend to use Imagine the most, this is partly due
to Steve Worley's third party support. I feel secure that Impulse
is aware of the importance of third party support, If you don't
then call and tell them.

Command:
>I'll reiterate the fact that I know nothing about Imagine 3.0 at all.
>Two people have hypothesised that external texture support will be
>REMOVED from Imagine 3.0, which is why Impulse is making this big
>library of their own.  In this case there's nothing we (at Apex) can
>do.

I missed this one I guess. However with the competition scrambleing to
hop onboard the external texture boat, Why would Impulse give up it's
front row seat? Maybe, just maybe, They increased the ease of texture
implementation, so it was easy for them to create a library. Maybe
Command:
not but why does speculation always have to be negative??
If I felt half as bad about Impulse as some display on this list,
I'd have tossed it a long time ago!
                                                bill
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.../M iling Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4603 Re: From Mike's mouth to your face
8/19/93 11:52 36/ [e-mail]
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> To:            [e-mail]
> From:          [e-mail]
> Subject:       From nike's mouth to your face
> Date:          Wed, 18 Aug 93 21:21:35 PDT

> 3. Per Mike, they prefer to develop and compile on n PC platform
> because they "like the development tools better - they're faster"
> he told me. The source is then moved back to the Amiga and recompiled
> and tested there. Thus there is ONE base version of the code being
> developed for both platforms at once, with the bulk of the work being
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> done on the PCs.
>
MMMM.... Why am I worried about this? are they no longer goig to
take advantage of the amiga operating environment, rom
kernal libraries multitasking support etc. It would be very
disaointing if the code is not amiga optimized. That is where a
lot of speed comes into play for the initial development.
if you say just go by a pc thats not the point. The idea is to use
the software on your platform of CHOICE! for the advantages of the
environment you like. Neither IBM, COMMODORE or APPLE pay me to use
Command:
or promote their product amiga is just my CHOICE of environment even
though I use Mac's and pc's heavily. (yes I am learning vms on our vax
and have a history of unix and wmcs as well. notice all 3 here are
multiuser).


Is there anyone;
who can explain the process descibed above (not my blabbercng before
that.) and make me feel better? I just invested what for me is a lot
of money on Essence, Vertex, and imagine. as well as some hardware to
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put it all together. The material I have been reading is a far cry
from that warm fuzzy I'mesupposed to get about the product I just
purchased! A tidbit, a morcel, anything would help!


                            e                   Lesk
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])  e
21400.3.1.4604 From Mike's mouth to your face
8/19/93 10:28 14/ [e-mail] (William E. Costello)
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   > 3. Per Mike, they prefer to develop and compile on a PC platform
   > because they "like the development tools better - they're faster"
   > he told me. The source is then moved back to the Amiga and recompiled
   > and tested there. Thus there is ONE base version of the code being
   > developed for both platforms at once, with the bulk of the work being
   > done on the PCs.
   >


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Now we enow why they are not using the Amiga Datatype libraries.

bill.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imaginee(mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4605 Re: From Mike's mouth to your face
8/19/93 13:00 27/ scotte@137.110.2.105localhost (Scott Ellis)
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William E. Costello said on Aug 19 :

>
>    > 3. Per Mike, they prefer to develop and compile on a PC platfor
>    > because they "like the development tools better - they're faster"
>    > he told me. The source is then moved back to the Amiga and recompiled
>    > and tested there. Thus there is ONE base version of the code being
>    > developed for both platforms at once, with the bulk of the work being
>    > done on the PCs.
>    >
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>
> Now we know why they are not using thp Amiga Datatype libraries.

Ya know, why doesn't Impulse just admit that they are doing their work on the PC
platform becausp in the short time they've been in the PC market, they've
probably sold 5 times what they did in the Amiga market?

It's thepsame as VRL did with VistaPro....

While it means that there is probably no hope of Imagine getting a better
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intepface, or more Amiga-tized features, oh well.  Better PC-ported software than
no software.
   ////////////////////////////////p////////////////////////////////////
  //  Scott Ellis //  IRC: ScottE // WARNING: This signature warps   //
 //    [e-mail]   //  time and space in its vicinity //
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4606 Re: From
Mike's mouth to your face(plus some texture commen
8/19/93 12:24 63/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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> > 3. Per Mike, they prefer to d
velop and compile on a PC platform
> > because they "like the development tools better - they're faster"
> > he told me. The
ource is then moved back to the Amiga and recompiled
> > and tested there. Thus there is ONE base version of the code being
>
> developed for both platforms at once, with the bulk of the work being
> > done on the PCs.
> >

> [blabbering deleted (yo
 said it, not me;)]
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> Is there anyone;
> who can explain the process descibed above (not my blabbering before
> that.) an
 make me feel better? I just invested what for me is a lot
> of money on Essence, Vertex, and imagine. as well as some hardware to
> put it all together. The material I have been reading is a far cry
> from that warm fuzzy I'm supposed to get about the product I just
> purchased! A tidbit, a morcel, anything would help!
>
>
Command:
>                                                 Lesk

They probably have a lot of code that is platform independent.  The core of
Imagine, the raytrace algoryt ms, the bones and inverse kinemanics, stuff that
doesn't depend on hardware specifics(like graphics, menus, memory allocation).
All the hardware/platform dependent stuff is probably "enclosed" in Impulse
libraries; libraries that *have* to be written for each platform.  They could
probably port this stuff to SGIs(as they supposedly have, from what has been
said about an ad) just by writting those platform dependent libraries for SGIs.
The library calls on each platform have the same args and return the same
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values, they just have different internal code.

This isn't necessarily bad for the Amiga version.  If they have better tools
on the PC, which I don't doubt(although they probably paid a pretty penny
for em), that would speed up developement time.  More features faster.  Allow
more time for debuging(yeah, right).  Allow more time for optimization, etc.

The only concern is, they appear to be setting themselves up to switch to
a different market.  Like so many other successful third party Amiga vendors,
the temptation of the 60 million + PC market(where you can charge more money)
Command:
is hard to ignore.  And once you get a taste...why bother with 3 or 4 million
Amiga(probably 50% of which are used solely for game play) market.

The intent of this post is not to start a flame session.  Just telling it
like *I* see it(ie, you may see it different).  You really can't blame
Impulse if they go in that direction.  They are a company, companies try
and make money.  Loyalties don't mean as much as money making opportunities.
If you want to blame someone...(some of you may want to turn your heads at
this point ;) blame Commodore.

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Well I'll step down now.  The soapbox is ...whoevers.

BTW, I was playing with lightning last night, using bandfract instead of
ringfract. I morphed the plane from very thin to wide, and ZAP lighning
streaked across my Imaginary sky.  Cool stuff!  The neon lights look ok
(ie not great) as laser pulses.  Looks better animated.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]
Command:

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery

ntellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mai
 to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4607 Re: From Mike's mouth to your face
8/19/93 12:27 22/ [e-mail]
.edu (Jeff Walkup)
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Folks,

>    > 3. Per Mike, they prefer to develop and compile on a PC platform
>
> Now we know why they are not usin
 the Amiga Datatype libraries.

(and other blabber)

I have the impression that they have _always_ developed on the PC.
Pe
haps going as far back as Silver, but certainly at least starting
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with Imagine.  Perhaps this is why it has non-standard requ
stors and
such?  Perhaps.  But it's nothing new, don't fear that Imagine 3.0 is
going to be any less "Amigatized" than previo
s versions.

At any rate, I was glad to hear from Impluse themselves on the status of
3.0.  I'm feeling much more optomistic
about it now, than I was after
reading that rather negative post.  If you are listening, thanks
Impulse!  IF it turns out as
ood as it sounds, 3.0 will be a real
bargain at $100.

Command:
--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Ani
ator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21
00.3.1.4608 What about Joe's diner ??
8/19/93 14:38 6/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
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I only want to hear about the fort
comings of the project and
apologize for the bandwith, but I also think that is much
imagine related !

Hannes

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4609 RE: From Mike's mouth to you
 face
8/19/93 12:34 33/ [e-mail] (Scott Pack,SQA)
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In reply to LESK's concerns about the Amiga version being unoptimized and
compromized by the primary development on the PC - take a deep breath.  I
think that the questions you raise are valid but are separate from the PC
platform development paradigm.  Here's why.

MSDOS and Amiga Intuition are obviously two different beasts.  When you
develop for two platforms it is common to write "core" code, that being
what is general to both platforms such as the raytracing algorithms,
structures, and other helper funtionality.  The UI stuff and the system
interaction routines have to be developed separately unless you have a
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multi-platform development tool.  I don't think there is such a tool for
PC/Amiga, but there is for OS/2/Windows as well as Macintosh/Windows, but
this is besides the point.

So the bottom line is that the Amiga UI and multitasking functionality will
still need to be developed on the Amiga just as in the past.  This is
probably the stickiest part of the port siny probably be easier for Impulse to write
Imagine for Windows/Intuition and port to the other platform than to use
MSDOS sincetimizing for speed on any platform is heavily dependent on the compiler,
which of course are not the same so this shouldn't be  o
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4610 RESULTS OF THE BIG VOTE....
8/19/93 14:29 acm.rpi.edu>
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I had originaly mentioned accepting votes for a week, but the results
were so one sided that we'll just quit now. for those who care:

72 - Yes, impulse should join this mail list.
 0 - No, Impulse should stay at home
 1 - I don't really care what Impulse does

I contacted Mike Halvorson and he was glad to hear that there
were so many requests on behalf of Imagine users to see Impulse
here. Unfortunatet have the address
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subscribe unsubscribe  subsciption request here)

Dave, could you please add Compuserve account 74250,774 to the list.


With the release of imagine 3.0 drawing closer there is a lot of fevered talk
about new features, programming practices at Impulse etc... After talkin a bit today I can assure you all that external textures
are still in imagine3.0.  There are a bunch of new textures being included
Command:
in the release of 3.0, None of which were written by Zack, the main
programmer of Imagine.

As Harv mentio not ready when the software is and you really  want a copy of Imagine,
Impulse will send it to you. just ask. A readme will be included on disk
to cover the big new changes and the printed manual will be shipped
soon after. If you want the disk and manual together, no problem. Just
tell Impulse when you order.

Command:
Mike told me of some other new features not mentioned in the newsletter
that blew me away. On top of Bones, kinematics, and the particle system,
there is another big chunk of the animation system (I wish I could
remember what he called it now!) that hasn't been discussed much. He
described an animation  indeed!

They are working on a full developers kit that will detail all file formats
internal to imagine including the texture interface. No release time
mentioned. It will be posted to compuserve and this list.
Command:

Here's a cool feature. model a pencil. create a swerving spline path.
Tell the Pencil to conform to the path over a number of frames
and you have a sn slithering pencil. Just what I always wanted.

One last thing (sorry this message has grown out of control!!) I was
asked moms, and see Impulses presence here as a benefit
to all involved.

                    | Hey Beavis. Essence-II's Crumpled texture
steve lombardi      | really KICKS ASS.    Mhhh huh. Yea. And those space
[e-mail] | textures don't suck eittext)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4611 thanks to all
8/19/93 19:22 10/ [e-mail]
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Thanks to you all for your positve responses I am impressed by the
knowledge here. I can feel comfortable now with ordering 3.0. I was
going to from the beginning and I can now feel comfortable with my
original decision. The features of 3.re very exciting to me and
all they have to do is come close to the advertising and we will
really have an excellent product i     Again Thanks
                        Lesk

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4612 Fur texture and image processing ?s
8/19/93 17:26 28/ Peter Garza <[e-mail]>
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Hi alla  I had a couple of rambling questions that I thought someone
might be able to answer:

1. In a book called _New trends in Camputer Visualization_ (or
something similar) there is some discussion on how to put fur on
objects.  Some pictures show a weasel with and without fur and some
furry balls in a cage (kinda like tribbles in a zoo :).  I was
wondering if anyone had seen this, and if they gave a viable algorithm
for a fur texture.  Given the recent Coca-Cola ad with polar bears, it
seems to me that there is some way to make a furry object, but I have
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nowhere near the technical level to know how to do it.  Anyone else
kant to give it a try (<wink> <wink> <nudge> <nudge> all you wizards
at Apex)?  I think the book is copyright 1990 (or thereabouts).

2.  I've been thinking about getting an image proccessing program, but
don't know which one.  I've heard that once you get all the modules
for ADPro it gets costly.  I haven't heard much about ImageFX or Image
Master.  I know ImageFX comes bundled with a morphing program, but
that's not high on my list of wants.  What I am really looking for is
good conversions from different graphics formats (and I want to see
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just how much better an Imagine picture looks converting it from
24-bit to HAM than just stock Imagine HAM rendering).  Could someone
with experience with these give me some impressions,
bang-for-the-buck, etc.?  As this is not directly Imgaine related,
reply to me (or to the list at your own risk).  Thanks.

Peter Garzt
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4613 fur texturing
8/19/93 20:31 30/ [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
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Hi, all.
        Peter, the fur on the polar betr was actually done in several
steps.  The first one, obviously enough, was to build the bear.  Then,
it was textured using the traditional UV thing so that a painted
polar bear suit would fit properly.  Once that part was done, the
entire object(except for nose and eyes!) was extruded out to the
desired distance, which resulted in thousands of open ended boxes.
The extrusion was also based on where the c(where you'd
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actually see the fur)were extruded.  Otherwise you'd have 27,000
extrusions....lick.  Anyway, the resulting polen
fur maps, rendered, and then comped on top of the normal bear
using a matte.  That's it.  How this could be done in Imagine is
something I'd love to figure out.  It took a lot of programming,
which I have little experience in.

        Anywayo this mailing list, but why does transparent
over transparent, and fog over fog not work, whilp fog over
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transparI've been using Imagine for a looong time(best program there
is!) but this wierd transparent thpng has forced me to use roundabout
methods to achieve certain things.  Any insight would be great,
especially if I've been doing something wrong all these years!
(I'd feel pretty stupid, too...)

Thanks!
steveZ

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4614 FROM MIKES MOUT TO YOUR FACE
8/20/93 03:0i 19/ [e-mail] 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
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>While it means that there is probably no hope of Imagine getting a better
>interface, or more Amiga-tized features, oh well.  Better PC-ported software
>than no software.
Well you have the right to your opinion. I'd dump Imagine before I'd buy
a PC with messydos or windoze! Their are several good 3D packages available
on the market. Of course I do have a pc available at work, but only turn it
on when I'm forced to. Impulse has the right to develop for any system they
chose, but If they wish to continue with the Amiga they should do it right
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superior OS, and Hardware.
                                                        bill

PS. as stated it is not only Impulse that is taking this route. In a way you
 can't blame them! Not only ger but Many Amiga users do a
poor job of supporting their so called favorite system. This is mailing
list is a prime example :

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4615
8/20/93 06:24 [e-mail]>
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    [e-mail]
Subject:  Impulse Presence
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3.4 PL11]

Folks,

> I contacted Mike Halvorson and he was glad to hear that there
> were so many requests on behalf of Imagine users to see Impulse
> here.

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  I suggested they monitor this mailing list in the comments section of the
registration card I sent them, so they are getting the message from all sides.

  FWIW, I would be happy just to have them (Impulse) monitor our comments, so
they can get a good idea of what we are discussing (like a fly on  would of course be a bonus...

> I was pretty floored. It sounds very sick indeed!
                                       --l                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| Global Product Performance:            PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Design Tea  ESN: 395-2904                        |
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.../Ma3 07:15 114/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> Hey, David, you really think Imagine2.0 is that stupidly slower than Light-
> Wave? Or have
Both. :)

I actually made the switch to Lightwave when I was working an a 25Mhz '030.
Imaginw raytraces every pixel.  Raytralways be faster than Imagine
when all other things are equal.  Even when you have something that needs
raytraced, which shoulr mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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IMHO, Lightwave's adaptt the performance edge.
Imagine's scanline renderer is not worth discussing.

Lightwave's current '040 support is spectacular40
from a 25Mhz '030.  Various performance tools showed this machine to be
4 times faster.  A few test scenes showed Lightwavemes
faster in rendering.  You can't complain about that!

> I think the only thing Lightwave saves me from is from the long time I have
> to take to position my objects in a restrictive 3view-positioning way (the
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> same 3DS uses).

This is where I think Lightwave really shines and not a lot of people talk
about it.  It takes a VERY short amount of time to set som there is not much that I could have done in LW 2.0 that
I could not do in Imagine.  It just would have taken a heck of a lot m
> But don't you miss something from Imagine? Not really?
Command:

Sure.
-I miss the interactive way of editing splines.ghtwave's current
method of having to type in tension, continuity, and bias numbers is not
very intuitive.  The new motion grat.  MAN, do both programs need seperate splines for each channel of
motion!!!

Command:
-I yiss being able to specify any rie. render
frames 1-10, 15, 17-25, and 27-50.  This is not a big deal, but once I needed
to re-render frames 0-50 and 125-250 I had
to pick one or the other.  Obviously I chose to render 125-150, but the machine
sat idle for 3hrs. while I was gone and know.

-I miss the Cycle Editor.  Sure you can setup a hierarchy in LW and
create cycle motions using the End Behavior of a mctive in Imagine's cycle editor.
Command:

-I miss the F/X.  Very powerful and underused aspnct of Imagine.  Lightwave
now a package of object effects... Hopefully not
too long.

-I desperately miss being able to hane the camera track an object for
only _part_ of the anim and multiple objects at different times within the
anim.  With Lightwave you have to set the target, render those frames, set
Command:
the new target, render those frames, or just not use the convient target
method of aiming-view... on RARE occasions.

-I miss the objects local axis being displayed, sort of.

-I miosed magnetism... but bones is fThere is more I'm sure... However, the list of things I don't miss is too
long and unimportant to you guys to mention.

Lightwave 3.0 has set an impressive mark in the usability and power of 3D
animation/rendering softwate.  A lot of the features listed for Imagine 3.0
are impressive, but unfortunately, Impulse has position Imagine to constantly
play catchup with Lightwave.  I'm sure a lot of this is due to NewTek's
association with production houses such as the groups doing B5 and SeaQuest
who are pushing the software in a serious production environment and constantly
Command:
suggesting new features... maybe demanding. :)

> Be sincere!

Oh, I always will be...  I am now in a position with a new business that e
money is what is imporant.  Software loyalty and machine loyalty is now
meaningless unlike before.  Of course jumping from pletform to platform and
package to package isn't going to happen because of the cost of the change
but a significant, revelutionary change in 3D software that addresses a need
we have will be enough to force that change.
Command:
Luckily it seems to un that Lightwave with a Screamer is the way to go anyways.

> But I just got addicted to Lightwave, what can I do? :)))

I tnink you touched on it right here.  Lightwave really is addictive.  Again
I think it is because it is SO easy to get great results out of it so when you
have a problem to solve you immediately jump to the new solution.  I kind
of laugh when I consider that I originally bought the Toaster as a buffer and
a now-and-then switcher/CG/DVE unit.
I hit a stumbling point with a project in Imagine and looked to Lightwave
Command:
to see how they handled it... I was then hooked.  I still used Imagine to
model for a long time, as anyone would.  Modelers take a little longer to
get comfortable with, but that eventually changed and Modeler 3.0 is
spectacular!

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
Commaod:
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"<Censored>  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any
Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
214e0.3.1.4617 Now that Impulse cant article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' done' to stop.
-----
to the Sales people at Impulse,
        I have been trying desperately td get our company to use Imagine is another inclination to stick to tangible, non-electronic artwork.
We have 2 very high-end SGIs here.  You put a very promisyou
please contact our company?  I can't seem to convince them that a stock
Amiga belongs here, but they do like SGIs a great
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offerther VR '
simulations).  OUr branch in San Diego is expanding.  Two people off this list
are ccrrently being looked at for hirgine is
quintessential to the sales aspect (they are David Ingbretsen and Scott Ellis).
        Although I do not know when thhire Scott soon for part-time
work.  At any rate, the other artist here is named Ron Suverkrop, and he
is very enthusiastic abyou made an effort to
Command:
arrange a demonstration of Imagine to this company, I am sure your efforts
would result in a your customer base significantly, especially since your
development tools don't cost the $100,000 that Multi-Gen does.
      is,

                -Joe Solinsky

please contact:
either Gary Washam, Steve McSweeney, or0Bob Schnurr
Command:
at:
Ba
21400.3.1.4618 Bitmap of the earth
8/20/93 07:20 11/ [e-mail]
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You are readine' to stop.
-----

Does anyone have a good picture of the earth, suitable for wrapping
aroun0 a sphere with Imagine? I have tudio,
but it's blurry and not very good. I'd love something better.

If you can give me an FTP site or better yet, mail me t-
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           Marshall
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forwar          Time:11:46 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          Animating bubbles in a glass           Date:8/20/93
Hi..
I was trying to animalass of soda or something..
With Imagine 3.0 and its particle system, I guess it could be pretty easily
done, but how can I dopage edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4620 PC Imagine and DXFing
8/20/93 09:56 24/ Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
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I understand that DXFing (in or out) or Imagine PC is not working.  At
least from my end (I can't dxf out).  I am trying to take an Imagine
object out to Autocad Rel 12.  The DXF option is not working.  Is this
just one of those things Impulse never really got to work, or has a patch
been issued?  Does Impulse issue patches or "upgrades".  The mouth
watering feature list of the up and coming 3.0 release doesn't really do
much for me knowing that these new features may be included but
disfunctional.  Kinda a good news bad news issue.  "Good news Imagine 2.0
supports DXF, Bad news it doesn't work".  A non feature in my book.

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And a brief README or WHATSNEW.DOC on the differences of Imagine 2.0 PC
and the Amiga version would've been nice.  A single Sample Animated
Project Would go along way to showing you how it pieces together. In the
PC version, it would've been nice to support more PC related file formats
for font objects.  IFF or ILBM files are not that commonly supported.  But
I'm rambling...  Since Impulse is now listening/monitoring this...  From a
PC user who knows the PC side of the world, you guys need to get a more
"finished" product.  Imagine 2.0 has the feel of shareware or beta
product.

Command:
Cliff Lee
[e-mail]


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.../Mailing Lists/Ifagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4621 Animating bubbles in a glass
8/20/93 17:00 14/ [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
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-----

Well, I know of two ways you can go about it.  Videotape the
        softdrink of choice(are you part of the new gene
ation, or
        always the classic one?) in a square vase with the lens placed
        flush on the surface of the glass, t
en digitize the frames
        and wrap them onto your liquid object as an animating
        brushmap.  I've been experimenti
g with this type of thing
        (not bubbles, but other things) and have had great photo-
        realistic results.  The o
her option is to paint little bubblemaps
        in Dpaint, map them onto tiny cards, and then animate these.
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Any other idea
?

steveZ

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.
.4622 PC Programmed Imagine 3.0
8/20/93 13:15 31/ [e-mail] (Michael Linton)
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Just a note here, to all the people who seem worried about Imagine no
longer being "Amigatized."  A good friend of mine, is a professional
programmer (as in, he programs like on board computers, stock market
computers etc.) and at HOME, he programs on a PC, and then takes the code
and moves it to the Amiga, where he adds in more Amiga specific coding,
and then compiles it on the Amiga.  Which, is most likely what Impulse is
doing.  I don't know a whole lot about C programming, infact I know
nothing about it.  But, I'd have to agree with whoever it was who said
it's likely Impulse has been doing this since the days of Silver.  It's
especially logical, if you're making software for 2 different platforms.
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Why program on the Amiga first, and then have to go through all the
trouble of removing Amiga specific code, for the PC version?  Simpler to
program it on the PC first, bring it back to the Amiga, add in the needed
code, and complie it there... At least, that seems logical to me anyways.
At anyrate, I'd be VERY surprised if Impulse dropped Amiga specific things
from the software...  If they have, then I'll stick with Imagine 2.0. :)
Then again, in actual fact, Imagine has NEVER been really Amiga
"Standardized."  Even back in the Silver days, the interface was always
nonstandard.  T'would be o' so nice if the interface was AmigaDos 2.0+
looking (ala Real 3D 2.0).  Ah, well... The interface does it's job.
Command:
Could be worse, there could be no interface at all. :)  Yeah, I'm
babbling... TTYASS.


------------------------------------------------------------
  "...even the stuff you taught me, has been pushed back into the dark
recesses of my mind...  Need a candle or two (rendered of course, as
my light source) to find all that buried info again..."

              Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4623 Merlin 24 Bit board
8geis.com
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-----
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Hello Imagineers!!!

        I'm trying to get some info about the Merlin board, if anyone
has had one, I would like to know about its speed, WB emulation,speed
on an Amiga or anything else that would be worth knowing....


Thanks,


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         e      Diego


Please email to: [e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (meil to: [e-mail]4624 Received PC Imagine Upgrade for MSDOS 6.0
8/21/93 12:53 11/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
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Well I was some kind of surprised as yesterday a little packet was
in the post. Init there was one disc and a letter saying that
this is the upgrade for PC Imagine for the use with MS-DOS 6.0
My surprise was that I heard nothing about this update on this list
before. I am living in Germany and therefore things take some
time to move from the States to Europe.
Is there anyone in the States who has also received this update.
If so please tell me more about it (features included in it)

hannes
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-----
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-----
+-- David Watters wrote:
| -I miss the interactive way of editing splines.  Nos article.  Use <RETURN> or 'pagto stop.
-----
+-- David Watters wrote:
| -I miss the interactive way of editing splines.  Nosng is easer than
| selecting a knot and rotating it and moving it, etc.  Lightwave's current
| method of having to type in tension, continuity, and bias nuut it is still a trial and
| error thing, typing in multiple sets of values until the spline is shaped how
| you want it.

You know that with 3.0, you can hold down "t", "c" or "b" (for tension,
continuity and bias) and mhve the mouse from side to side to change
-----
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the value while the curve updates interactively.  This works in layout
and in the m
tion graph editor.

                Stuart Ferguson         ([e-mail])
                        Prepare to Surge to
tion graph editor.

                Stuart Ferguson         ([e-mail])
                        Prepare to Surge to
light Speed!
Command:

ling Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4626 Re: Stars
8/22/93 08:2
 4/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
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----roblem that I have had with home-made stars occurs with Imagine's dithering.
Occasionally I will experience annoying & unwanted
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4627 Re:  Superman nevorward' to
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-----
Stars:

I've used Essence's Polka Dot texture to creat reales.  The problem is with Imagin's dithering & low res interlaced HAM6.  On some, not all, panning shots, I get annoying flickering.  When it is really bad, I revert to Imagine stars for that shot.

Any other good ideas for stars?

Jason K.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4628 Sand
8/22/93 08:26 5/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
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I'm just getting through old mail so bear with me if this was covered.
Would Real3D be able to create the sand effect for this idea?

Jason K.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (madl to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4629 Re:  Superman never made any mone(stars)
8/22/93 10:11 15/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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> Any other good ideas for stars?
>
> Jason K.
>

Anyone have any problems with Imagine stars and filters?  Te stars disappeared
on me when I used a filter(behind a filter).  Any ideas?


-----
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[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4630 Re: Phong shading and stuff
8/22/93 10:30 7/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
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yoining two objects won't allow the smooth Phong shade you want.

Say you make two planes, position them at angles and so the ov OD intersect.  Using Join will give you one object but it won't make new edges at intersecting surfaces.

First use slico to get the intersection areas to have real edges defining them, then Join & Merge everything.  The problem here is now with Imagine's Slice feature, it doesn't always work.

Jason K.
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2140a.3.1.4631 Re: Superman never made any mone(stars)
8/22/93 18:20 23/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Sun, 22 Aug 1993, Thomas Setzer wrote:

>
> > Any other good ideas for stars?
> >
> > Jason K.
> >
>
> Anyone have any problems with Imagine stars and filters?  The stars disappeared
-----
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> on me when I used a filter(behind a filter).  Any ideas?
>
This is one of those 'features' of Imagine that aren't quite perfect. :-)

The stars cannot be seen through any transparent objects, and they are not
reflected by Reflective objects.

What we need are single polygon objects.

Nik.
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y../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4632 peters book
8/22/93 18:49 22/ [e-mail] (Kreg Branden)
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     I think the book you mentioned was actually, "New Trends In Animation
and Visualisation".  Powells Tech should have a copy in about three weeks.
It's from 1991 and the author is N. Thalman.  I think it's about 55 or 60
bucks.


-- Via DLG Pro v1.0

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     Kreg Branden





 "It is irrational for someone in a monkey suit to walk around claiming
they're not in a monkey suit.
This, in effect, is what the human species
is doing."

          "Relax and enjoy the show."
Command:


Command:

Re
d article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4633 Stars...
8/23/93 08:19
0/ [e-mail] are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for d
0/ [e-mail] are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for d
ils).  Type 'add_article'OTE: This post was sent to the [e-mail] address
      and is being forwarde
 to the list by me. Please be certain when replying
      to IML posts that your REPLY function is grabbing the correct address:
      [e-mail]
      If not, be certain to either change the address, or at least Cc: a copy
      tsere. Thanks.

---------article
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From [e-mail] Sun Aug 22 18:02:41 s993
Date: 22 Aug 93 18:51:00 EST
From: "J_GEORGE" <[e-mail]>
To: "imagine-relay" <[e-mail]>


I've got someth stars on my list I'll be attempting in a few weeks..
My original set of stars was a selection of ssall octohedrens(?) (8 faced
shapes of slightly varying sizes scattered over a wide area, then joined,
Command:
later addingsall octohedrens(?) (8 faced
shapes of slightly varying sizes scattered over a wide area, then joined,
Command:
later addingsttle effects like larger, odd colored spheres (still small
enough to be stars or distant planets/moons). I created two or three of
these dioramas then simply set them against a dark background.. actually
the global horizon set for a dark blue next to black, RGB 2,2,2 Zenithgling on the fog and basic lighting, it looked alright.

I'm working on a different animation from that one, but once I edit jects I wanna experiment with putting the three
star dioramas into a cycle, generally to accent motion, especially with a
panning camera following an object. I also know that I'll need to check the
Command:
star colors against the light colors and fiypes would create
the bright light-blue-to-white highlights on the objects.

(sorry for the rambling)

Anyway, this seemas any other ideas/hints/tips for achieving these effects, please post 'em.
we could use the traffic ;-9

                                                        I\/Iax I\Iomad
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4634 Another Product Query
8/23/93 08:27 26/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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NOTE: This post was sent to the [e-mail] address
      and is being forwarded to the list by me. Please be certaiain to either change the address, or at least Cc: a copy
      there. Thanks.

----------------------------------
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From J_Gdu Sun Aug 22 07:38:03 1993
Date: 21 Aug 93 20:45:00 EST
From: "J_GEORGE" <[e-mail]>
To: "imagine-relay" <[e-mail]>


Has anyone had any experience using the Sanyo GVR-S950 Video Production Center?
According tr,
Single Frame Animation Controller, Video and Audio switchers with 2 independent
Video/2 ind audio channels, S-VHS Format, and so on... I haven't contacted the
Command:
nearest sales rep for more details, but I'd like an end-user opinion on this,
plus if it can be used with Imagine as well as with the Toaster..

Thanks...

                     u                                  I\/Iax I\Iomad
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail]) m (Dave Wickard)
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Tally-Ho Imagineers!  :-)


Greetings from the Land of 10,000 scum-covered, mosquitoe-infented
sloughs (or "lakes" as the Bureau of Tourism prefers to call 'em).

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sloughs (or "lakes" as the Bureau of Tourism prefers to call 'em).

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I just wanted to post my occassional Administrative nlither for
your peruamax.com

   Those sending requests to the full list will be cursed,
   have the integrity of their famnly lineage questionedcompanies and their
   products (constructive critism is fine, of course),
   and holding to an Imagine-related discussion linand:
   [e-mail]

   I will forward "imagine-relay"  mail to the full list, but
r  it might be delayed a day or two.

4. ....hmmmm...four.... I can't remember.

                                           r

Dave Wickard  [phone]   "You will find yourself drawn irresistably
Command:
[e-mail]

Dave Wickard  [phone]   "You will find yourself drawn irresistably
Command:
[e-mail]        to this man of soft-edge shadows and chrome
[e-mail]       balls." -from my upcoming book
[e-mail]       Rendering Men And The Women Who Love Them


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagiee (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4636 Re: FROM MIKE'S MOUTH TO YOUR FACE
8/23/93 13:13 15/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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In ite system. This is mailing
>list is a prime example of this.
>                                           top.
-----


In ite system. This is mailing
>list is a prime example of this.
>                                           t          bill
e headers
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Dave Wickard  [phone]   "We tried to pry out the tusks but they were
[e-mail]        too firmly imbedded. Of course in Alabama,
[e-mail]       the Tuscaloosa."  -Groucho Marx
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21400.3.1.4637 Ro: FROM MIKE'S MOUTH TO YOUR FACE
8/23/93 14:08 16/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
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>
> In a recent post, [e-mail] (bill) states:
>
> >Not only is the market larger but Many Amiga users do a
> >poor job of supporting their so called favorite system. This is mailing
> >list is a prime example of this.
> >                                                        bill
>
> Ummmmm....thanks (?)   ;-)
>
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The Amiga Nazi rears its ugly head. Computers are only tools, not kids,
ideologies ol religions. Hmmm, where'd I get that "kids" thing?

Wherever I can find speed, and I can afford the software - I'm there.

lndrew.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4638 lrom mike's mouth to yours
8/24/93 03:36 29/ [e-mail]
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>poor job of supporting their so called favorite system. This is mailing
>list is a prime example of this.
>                                                        bill

>>Ummmmm....thanks (?       Well actually your very welcome. I can see where this got mixed
        up. What I ment to say was this list displays the thoughts of
        a small amount of AMIGA(at one time IMAGINE ment Amiga) users.
        Of this small amount some seem qur mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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        complain endles seem to appreciate
        the things Amiga's offer that go beyound the other platforms
        today. Imagine has given me t
        felt possible, as has the Amiga. This list has offered me the
        ability to take advantage of Imagine's capabiliind the stone throwing to be out of line lately. I see people
        trouncing Imagine 3.0 and it hasen't been released yet. H 3.0 is here before we stone it. A show of support for Impulse's
        efforts would not hurt at this time. As for Platform srs) the
        PC version for $100.00. I can't justify a dos box just for Imagine
        so I lose here. However I do expecmmand:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4639 Re: Stars...
8/24/93 03:10 27/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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>
> I've got some things with stars on my list I'll be attempting in a few weeks..
> My original set of stars was a selection of small octohedrens(?) (8 faced

> star dioramas into a cycle, generally to accent motion, especially with a
> panning camera following an object. I also know that I'll need to check the
> star colors against the light colors and find what lighting types would create
> the bright light-blue-to-white highlights on the objects.
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>
> (sorry for the rambling)
>
> Anyway, this seems like a pretty basic approach/set of ideas to me, if anyone
> has any other ideas/hints/tips for achieving these effects, please post 'em.
> we could use the traffic ;-9

What you may find is that using all those lights may slow down the
rendering a lot. You may want to make most of the objects Bright, and then
only us lights in the ocations where they are needed.
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Just an idea anyway.

Nik.



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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4640 Monitor Object
8/24/93 04:38 25/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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Ok, someone on this list asked for a C= 1084 monitor object. Well, I can't
exactly help you, but if you are happy with a Philips monitor object than I
can be of help.
This monitor looks similar to the 1084 (in fact this is the same monitor
as the 1084 - C= just rebadged it).

The object itself is quite detailed. It was created By Neil Miller, a
member of AGA Sig here in Sydney, Australia.

I've placed the object on the wuarchive.wustl.edu in the:
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systNms/amiga/boing/incoming/imagine directory. The name of the object is
Monitor.lha.

Download it and have fun!

Nik

(AGANSig President)

P.S. The object is freely distributable but is Copyright to Neil Miller,
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so if you use it, pleaseNcredit him. You already knew this though. ;-)




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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4641 Re: hiding, clipping
8/24/93 06:54 39/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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      [e-mail]
      If not, be certain to either change the address, or at least Cc: a copy
      there. Thanks.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From [e-mail] Tue Aug 24 00:49:21 1993
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From: David Watters <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 0:48:37 EDT
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>; from "Stuart H. Ferguson" at Aug 21, 93 5:19 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]

> +-- David Watters wrote:
> | -I miss the interactive way of editingasplines.

> You know that with 3.0, you can hold down "t", "c" or "b" (for tension,
Command:
> continuity and bias) and moae the mouse from side to side to change
> the value while the curve updates interactively.  This works in layout
> and in the motion graph edite you can figure it all out on your own.  I still haven't read all
of the 1.0 and 2.0 manuals! :)

Thanks for the info!

Coord in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
  o                    1 to 10 of 38 (26%)
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o Received: from email.sp.paramax.com by student-lab.nov.snow.edu
(Mercury 1.0); >     Tue, 24 Aug 93 5:48:34 GMT+17
> Received: by email.sp.param:36 CDT
> Return-Path: <[e-mail]@email.sp.paramax.com>
> Received: from enet-gw.pa.dec.com by email.sp.paramax.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
>   id AA22712; Tue, 24 Aug 93 05:37:50 CDT
> Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA29356; Tue, 24 Au: <[e-mail]>
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page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article wnI see people
>   trouncing Imagine 3.0 and it hasen't been released yet. Have
>   a problem today(bug or whatever) fine but leect them to optimize the Amiga version
>   (I mean for speed as opposed to other features),

(YES!)

 ommand:
>   and maintain Multitasking support.

(SUPER REALLY BIG HAPPY JOYOUS WASTE ALL THE BANDWIDTH APPLAUSE!!!)
(REPEA  ABOVE)
(REPEAT ABOVE)
ETC. ETC. ETC.

                                        Lesk
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... Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4643 Tape Worms
8/24/93 08:48 50/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Pip pip and Cheerio Imagineers!  :-)


Here's something that might be/should be of interest to the
modelisticaly (!?) inclined out there (particularly, but
not exclusively...the Joe's Diner Project).

A short while ago I got some mail from a company called
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MidWest Media. Their niche in life is to produce corporate,
industrial,educational and commercial videis.
One of the videos they are in process of producing is called
"More Than You Imagined". It's an Imagine 3.0 tutorial tape.
It's thrust is similar to other 3D rendering video tutorials
in that it's usually easier to learn from _watching_ someone
peform an action than by a dry presentation in print form.
This is an apparent attempt to make a more useful and
current tutorial for Imagine users than the Centaur tape
"Imagine: A Guided Tour". MWM is also planning to begin a
Command:
BBS system by September 15, 1993 (presumably for 3D rendering
interests in general..not specifically Imagine- though that info
was not explained in the letter).
they update me.
MWM are interested in Imagine-related companies to use as references
in their tape. They want to establish a dialogue with the IML
regarding Imagine applications. There will be freely distributable
objects included on a disk that accape. Do you have
any objects you'd like to see included on their tape/disk set?
It would be a way to get your modeling reputation established.
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If you have something you think may be of interest to MWM,
drop me a line IMMEDIATELY. I think theI am neither promoting or discouraging your participation in this
project. I will recieve no monetary benefit from your or my
ed, it's current, and it might be
Command:
of interest to a percentage of the IML subscribers, so it is
presented as a service to you.


Dave Wickard  [phone]   "I like that Barney character.
[e-mail]       In fact, I think his hide would make
[e-mail]       a damn fine throw rug in the hallway."
[e-mail]       -Sister Theresa


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.(fwd)
8/24/93 08:51 22/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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|    The quality at the highest level Q23 is essentially identical (to me)
|totthe original image.  |For animations, the program sets the Q level for you.  I have seen it work
|at around 19 to 14 depeneding on the image.  14 is pretty acceptable for video
|using both composite and SVHS (sorry i can't handle test MII/Betacam output).
|However, JPEG typ output is very good and the SVHS was almsot identical to the
|RGB from my Firecracker board.

        Is anyone using the PAe
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        the artifacting a problem?


        Thanks,

I       Dale

       _____________________________^_____________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support  I                            MailStop: LR24A4
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       [e-mail]             Tel: [phone]
  I                                 .
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4645 Re: DPS PAR - My review. (fwd)
8/24/93 10:41 16/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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>       Is anyone using tIe PAR for Beta SP output?  How does it look?  Is
>       the artifacting a problem?

I have not used it yet, but the componeIt output looks wonderhe artifacts are still there (they are
just a lot cleaner :-) Also, the recent improvement in the Seagate driver
code has helped reduce the artifacting quite a bit.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
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%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~04 24/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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You are reading a text article.  Use <Rd to take a minute to welcome Impulse to the Imagine
        Mailing List.  Many opinions, hypotheses (educated and not),
    .

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subscuibe unsubscribe headefore the list gets barraged with impatient posts, I wanted to
        take a breif chunk of band width and welcome the developmg the
        list, getting support for the Imagine animation program, I can
        think of no greater addition to the list________________^_____________________________
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       dale r. rogers
       afme support                               MailStop: LR24A4
       [e-mail]             Tel: [phone]
                                    . (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4647 Ftp sites.
8/25/93 00:09 21/ drz@d_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Does anyone know a ftp command to get a subdrectorys of a ftp site?   I've been trying to find 3d
objects but it takes to long using the "LS" command when you can on the one I've been looking at is Wuarchive.wustl.edu
/systems/amiga/boing/video/imagine/objects   but I would like to find
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I've heard there is a Imagine BBS in Calgary AB Canada but I don't know
the number and it's too expensive to call the USA for objects. so if
anyone knows it, thanks.

Willam V. Swartz  I think I wrote your address down wrong because the
mail I replyed to bounced back.


--
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Dennis Zeitz      t       [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4648 Re: Welcome Impulse to the IML
8/25/93 02:02 18/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Tue, 24 Aug 1993, Date R Rogers wrote:

>
>
>       So before the list gets barraged with impatient posts, I wanted to
>       take a breif thunk of band width and welcome the developers of
>       Imagine to the Imagine Mailing List.  Given the charter of the
>       list, getting support for the Imagine animation program, I can
>       think of no greater addition to the list.
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I se ond this welcome Dale.

Nik.
[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4649 Acceleration/Deacceleration
8/25/93 08:02 22/ [e-mail] (Tom Smith)
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I have   path with an object following it, and I want it to deaccelerate along
the path. So, for example, the starting speed is 500 units/frame, and the
ending speed is 200 units/frame. I want it to smoothly go from the  starting
speed to the ending speed.

i'm not at my computer right now, and I've forgotten what the labels were,
but the path following window is something like this:

     Path Name:
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   f acceleration frames:
     Starting speed (units/frame):         500
     # of deceleration frames::
     Ending speed (unitsows the path in 50 frames. So, am I supposed to put 49 for the
number of deceleration frames? I've tr:ed everything, but the ob I get it so
the object follows the path at 500 units/frame, and ends up at the end of the
path at 200 units/frame 50 frames later?
Command:

                                                   Tom Smith
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Read ar0icle (text)
.../Mailinge <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to th(mn 50 frames. So, am I supposed to put 49 for the
> number of deceleration frames? I've tried everything, but the object just sining of the path, or the end.  How do I get it so
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page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_a at 500 units/frame, and ends up at the end of the
> path at 200 units/frame 50 frames later?
>
>                                                    Tom Smith

What is a path following window?
Can this be done with multiple objects at the same time w for collisions.?

                                                    Lesk
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.../Mailing Li (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4651 Question about PC Imagine
8/25/93 13:39 e5/ Hannes Heckner <hecknerhn n my Amiga quite a lot. Now I also purchased
PC Imagine and I am quite happy with it. But one thing about
PC Imagine is very strange.
When I render on my 386/387 the actual rendering process is
much faster comapred to my nmiga 3000. But then the PC haMy configuration:
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386/387 (Math Co)
8 MB
MS-DOS 5.0

I am scanlining NOT tracing.
I use imallest picture size from the default settings.

BTW, I want to thank Impulse that they came to this list ! I hope
that members of the list and the people from Impulse can work
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together to push Impulse beyond its limits !


Hannes

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Read article (text) 1 tured my hard drives last night (ran out of room on one).

In short, is there any way to tell Imagine to look at a differentld read the manual...;)


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Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a geniul, so people are naturally drawn- Calvin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4653 are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for letails).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Tom Smith,

> The lbject follows the path in 50 frupposed to put 49 for
> the number of deceleration frames? I've tried everything, but the object
> just sits there either at t.  How do I
> get it so the object follows the path at 500 units/frame, and ends up at th
> e end of the path at 200 units/frame 50 frames later?

Woah there Tom, 50 frames, 200 units per frame, that's one *BIG* path!  Are
you sure your path is even 5
your path and use ShowPathLength [or words to that effect] in the pulldown
menu.  This may exprain why your object is just site duration of the 'pathing.'  Take the path length, and divide
it by 50.  That's the max amount of travelling that can be done o - Crazed Artist
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/ magine (mail to: imagine@email.
8/25/93 16:21 27/ [e-mail] (Greg Burger)
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Hello all!

Okay, here's my problem:

I made a Lege horse object and put a Lego knight on him and animated him
in the cycle editor so that he gallops.  So, the horse is of course made
up of many pieces.  I mapped a face onto the horse and a design on the
knight's shield and a face on the knight.  When the horse is galloping
though, the brushmaps stay in one place relative to the main parent axis
of the horse as the horse moves up and down and the guy rocks back and
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forth.  I KNOW I mapped the horses face onto the horses head and not the
horses parent axis and I KNOW that it's in the right spot when the horse
is standing still.  It's the same for the picture on the knights shield.

An I doing something wrong?!  What is it?  PLEASE help!!!
If I haven't explained it well enough, please tell me!

s
Thanx!!
-Greg
Command:


--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-///-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
         s  ///           [e-mail]       I had raytraced my
        \\\///  Only                or                 .sig, but I forgot to
         \XX/  Amiga      [e-mail]     include a light source.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4655 Quickie FDPro anim
8/25/93 13:33 7/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
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Take a look at the anim I've uploaded to Aminet, "FR101.lha", will most
likely end up in the dir "gfx/anim'.  It's a color-shaded test of the
FDPro Flight Recorder that I rendered, using ISL and Imagine.

--
Jeff Walkup - jwalkup'sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu - Digital Animator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4656 Re: Imagine defaults
8/25/93 14:03 17/ [e-mail] (John T. Grieggs)
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>
> I just restructured my hard drives last night (ran out of room on one).
>
> In short, is there any way to tell Imagine to look at a different directory
> for objects, textures, etc?  ie change the default directories so that it
> looks in my object directory first for objects instead of the Imagine/objects
> dir?
>
Well, first of all, I find that it's a darn good idea to root all of my
rendering stuff in a symbolic name (such as IMAGINE:) rather than a physical
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path.  This makes it a lot easier to move things around.

Also, ISL would help you change your stages around pretty easily.  T3D might
help do the same for your objects.  There will be some manual work, however.

_john

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[e-mail]>
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Please UNSUBSCRIBE me from the Imagine Mailing List. Thanx.


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Thanks for the response huys! You helped me see where d.

Thanks again!

Tom Smith
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])h
21400.3.1.4659 Imagine/PC random crashing
8/26/93 07:31 22/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
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Is anyone else having trouble with Imagina/PC crashing randomly? The ont is with Global Fog. Impulse just sent me an
update that was supposed to fix this, but to no avail. Otherwise, I find
the pron stage
slicing
loading objects in detail
moving points in forms
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This is just a small sampling, and as I say, are only occt action will work
fine. My system is a Dell 486/66, with DOS 6.0. I'm not running anything
but the plainest setup, no emm386 video driver. I don't think this
is a RAM problem, I have 16 megs, and this will happen with a variety of
simple and complex objects and staging setups.

Thanks.
Command:

Andrew.
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21400.3.1.4660 Re: Imagine defaults
8/26/93 08:46 37/ [e-mail] (Mike Band 1 to 10 of 37 (27%)
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g----
Thomas Setzer says:

rives last night (ran out of room on one).
>
>In short, is there any way to tell Imagine to logk at a different directory
>for objects, textures, etc?  ie change the default directories so that it
>looks in my object directory first for objects instead of the Imagine/objects
>dir?

I assume you mean the Amiga version of Imagine...
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You can eet default ("cd") to another directory before firing up
Imagine provided the directory has a configuration file.  The
configuration file should, in turn, tell it where to find the
startup picture.  The problem with doing this is that I tended not
to list the full path out so my fault was the directory above
where EssenceII was installed (it says the textures are at
"Essence/whatever"), I changed it soy work on the
logical IWork: that I can move around; I have to tell Imagine about it
twice - the first time I open/create a pr in between.

My advice?  IMHO, leave the default where Essence wants it - the directory
above where it's installed, probably the Imagine: directory - and
Command:
explicitly tell Imagine to find your stuff in a directory tree based
on a user-define
Mike Bandy      [e-mail]
Johns Hopkins University / Applied Physics Laboratory
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21400.3.1.4661 RE: Imagine/PC random crashing
8/26/9through the
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Subj:   Imagine/PC random crashing

I've seen these problems too.  Especially if I've had to load an object
several times in the detail editor.

I've seen this kind of thing in other programs when a Data Structure like a
linked listso large that it grows into the stack area of the heap.

I'm still learning the software so I figured I'd wait till the release of
Imagine 3.0 before I worry to much about the bugs.
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Imagine, great software, lousy documentation (IMO).


Rich

BTW, do any of you Amiga folks actually have an Appendix B with a
description of all the menu and submenu items in your manual.  Mine
mentions it but nada.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4662 Re: Imagine/PC random crashing
8/26/93 10:41 15/ [e-mail]
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Yes, I am also getting a lot of crashes. I have a Dell 33 with 8 meg. It crashes
a lot, particularly when I am in point editing mode.  If I click select, I am
OK, lasso works less well and drag box will crash about 60% of the time that I
use it.  It can be very frustrating.  I always get the message

<some number> bytes still allocated.

I am sure that it is configuration dependent because some people don't have
this problem; however, I haven't a clue what the problem could be.
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They said there's a bug fix version coming out in a few weeks.

                   o    Marshall
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21400.3.1o4663 Re: Imagine Defaults
8/ the
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      there. Thanks.
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        In short, is there any way to tell Imagine to look at a different directory
        for objects, textur-s, etc?  ie change the default directories so that it
        looks in my object directory first for objects instead of the Imagine/objects
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What I Imagine
better to make sure that it was a little more robust on the user's
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side.. a haven't read the manual eithrs:
What I'd like to see in a requester where all you have to do is press "disks"
the device and the directory that you want a as in Hamlab and Mplay.

I hope 3.0 is a little more flexible.. So you can design your own requester
or subsititute one in.mizeable buttons
that can be programmed to go to a specific path... For instance,
a "objects" button to go to your objects diectories that have images.. They could probably go as far as to have
a universal path where one directory is displayed but the the directory exist on different paths..

I know another thing that would be real easy... A button that automatically
doesto find which files are images and which ones are
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objects, etc.. Maybe even a feature to filter out all the objectses only, images and objects, define file types,
remove .info's from view, etc.. The definition's could be changed
according to postfix or a few recognizeable bytes in the header
of the file which are consistent among files of the same type.

Sorry, for wasting the space..
Kiernan
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21400.3.1.4664 Re: Imagine Defaults
8/26/93 12:08 40/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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NOTE:cThis post was sent to the [e-mail] address
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      [e-mail]
      If not, be certain to either change the address, or at least Cc: a copy
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From [e-mail] Thu Aug 26 13:52:41 1993
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 12:57:10 -0600
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From: Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]

        Well, first of all
 I find that it's a darn good idea to root all of my
        rendering stuff in a symbolic name (such as IMAGINE:) rather than a physical
        path.  This makes it a lot easier to move things around.
------
That's a good idea... But how about somet ing a little closer like
a button in the resuester that points to an assigned directory.
I know... I can't take things from technological standpoint...
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I have to rewrite everything.. /* smile */

I just tried doing this (as a test):

atsign stuff: work:imagine2.0
assign stuff: ram: add
assign stuff: c: add

but Imagine didn't recognize the last two eten though
in "assign" you get:
Command:

stuff             Work:Imagine2.0
                        + Ram Disk:        t
                        + System2.0:C

Has anyone thought about doing this??
Is it possible to make a program to do that...tCould the designers of Imagine
do it??

Kiernan
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2w McDonald)
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Well, I knew I wasn't alone with the Imagine/PC crashing problem. I guess
we've all comefigs provide different
results. Actually, I've been really productive with the program since I
started using it on the PC, so  heated complaint, just
wanted to see if it was my setup in particular.

The big bummer for me is that Global Fog will *not* e explanation regarding the linked lists helps to understand the
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forgotten about stacks, etc.

As with everyone, looking forward to version 3.0!

Andrew.eCommand:

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21400.3.1.4666 Re: Imagene/PC random crashing
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        As a note I have this happen too....all over the place though
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21400.3.1.466m Re: Imagine/PC random crashing
8/26/93 16:17 19/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
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move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-m---
Rick, ah the joys of the tried the latest, v9.0. I was wondering if
the files, buffers and stack statements in my config.sys should be
modified in soms=60
buffers=10
stack=9,256
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Also, I load the adaptec scsi driver for my syquest. I've tried sunning
without this for a mo I said, the
program has still managed to turn out four 30-second architectural
walk-thrus, so, s'm not *that* unhappy. It's just that with my own
projects, I like to get creative (i.e.- complicated), that's when I miss
something like global fog.

Andrew.
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21400.3.1.4669 Re: Imagine/PC random crashing
8/26/93 23:52 45/ Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>
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                As a nome I have this happen too....a
        I can't recall any in the stage or action editors.  Only in the detail
        and forms.  I am using a Gateway 486/D        it says "XXXXXX bytes still allocated" or something like that.  Dunno...
        since there's that attribute bug too....i've pretty much only been using
        the amiga version.
------------------------
I bet Impulse didn't check to see if ded...
I mean... somewhere in thier code
they probably didn't put a
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if (!(ptr = malloc(sizeof (ptrtype))) )
        {        fprintf(stderr,"not enough memory...");
        return -1;
        }
else
        {
        ptr->data = 47;
        return 0;
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        }

or something like that...

I bet it is like this:

ptr = malloc(sizeof (ptrtype))
ptr->data = 47;
return 0;

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The first example is more robust, and checks for the case where
the computer may run out of memory...

For all I know... It is probably not this... it is probably a Microsoft
software problem... Maybe a stack pointgisters on the stack,
setting the stack pointer to 30, erasing the first 30 items on the
stack that used to be there... Retudata segement... In short, start executing garbage..
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The interrupt that may be called may print that message that .../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4670 IMAGINE DEFAULTS
8/27/93 03:24 40/ leimberg.enet.dec.com
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te      Well, first of all, I find that it's a darn good idea to root all of my
>       rendering stuff in a symbolic name (such as IMAGINE:) rather than a physical
>       path.  This makes it a lot easier to move things around.
>That's a good idea... But how about something a little closer like
>a button in the resuester that points to an assigned directory.



well in the Amiga version If Impulse includes support for the 2.0 requesters
it should help a lot. I group all my stuff in logiciaedit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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it easier to get around.

>I just tried doing this (as a test):

>assign stuff: work:imagine2.0
>assign stuff: ram: add
>assig         + Ram Disk:
>                       + System2.0:C

To add support for the above is a no brainer. Many applicg assigned. This is all available
thru the OS. This is stuff I would like to see added to Imagine for the Amiga.
The capabilities are their and it would take minimal effort to follow the
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CBM developer guidelines. I can say however that Whilerapped(sounds like a RPG)), so I seelct "disks"  and climb
the tree again, The program has been stable under 3.0 on my 4000. However I
figure cleaning up the Amiga version is less a priority than getting the
Program dos compatable. At least on the Amiga I can flip to Directory Opus
to rename, relocate background bitmaps ect. I relly dislike not having
requestors available from within the action editors, but at least I can we can
work around it.
                                                                bill
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4671 Re: From Mike's mouth to your face
8/27/93 05:12 21/ "William J Toninato-1" <[e-mail]>
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On Thu, 19 Aug 1993, Jeff Walkup wrote:

> I have tng to be any less "Amigatized" than previous versions.
> --
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> Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / V

NO!  They have always developed on the Amiga and only now have been
writting on the PC.  What Mike thought was going to be  nightmare.  They are making head rows but it was not easy
makeing the transition.  The amiga has all built in therefore creatitammand:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4672 Re: Imagine/PC random crashing
8/27/93 06:27 54/ John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]
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move to the next article, and .us.adobe.com writes:
> Yes, I am also getting a lot of crashes. I have a Dell 33 with 8 meg.
> ... use it.  It can be very frustrating.  I always get the message
> <some number> bytes still allocated.

Net-intellect Kiernan Holland <[e-mail] help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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Actually, there's about three million things that could be wrong,
including the two obvious answers of null pointers and stack
collisions.  The wacky world of MS-DOS and 32-bit DOS extenders is
probably to blame.  (We might leave these three million reasons as an
exercise to the reader, except then Kiernan would post the answer to
the list, in C, PDP/11 assembler and Pascal.)

For the uninitiated, an MS-DOS computer does not come naturally to an
Amiga-like 32-bit flat address space, it goes kicking and screaming.

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I haven't explored Imagine PC yet, but from what I've seen so far, it
does not happily co-exist with common memory managers like QEMM, and
no one's been able to tell me which DOS extender they use.  This
isn't a good sign.

And I know it wouldn't feel like a posting from me unless I
complained about bandwidth, so here goes: I do not understand why
people post both to the list and the original poster.  (Ex. To:
[e-mail], [e-mail] )  Even if your mailer
does this automatically, I'll bet it has a way to delete one of the
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references.  Why should the poster get TWO copies?  And these
quot
programmer merely forgot to set the speed option to 11 instead of the
default of 10?  Optimizers are notorious for generatingettings until your program breaks, then turning it down a notch.
Command:

Any programmer worth their paycheck will probabre exists any
time between the last moment of debugging and the shipment of the
product, (and Amiga products are often closer  the
programmer suddenly change the compiler options without thoroughly
testing the program again with the new options.

It'ater gains in speed come from changes in algorithm, which is
tougher to do than turning the knob to "11".


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ReaRogers)
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|Thanks Dale;
|    It seems the key word here was MAKE once I got ahold of that
|eveif I can just figure out how to get an object to follow a
|path and have the camera follow the object on the path I will really
|be having fun.

        Lesk,

        That's easy.  Define a path in the stage editor.  Save it.  Go
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        into Action Editor and delete the position bar of the object that
        you want to follow the path.  Add a new position bar (replacing
        the old one)when Imagine asks you for the location of an object,
        through a requester,  it wants a path (location on your hard driv
        Path Name (ie. an Imagine Path) it wants the name of the Path that
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        has been assigned in the left hand column of the Action Editor.  It's
        an internal Imagine name definition as opposed to system location
        name.  Make sure the Path name in the Object position info
        requester and the name of the Path in the left hand column matchIf
        you Rename the Path in the left hand column from say path.1 to
        something more meaningful like spherePath or shipPath1, etc.  be
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        certain to change the Path name in the object position info
        requester as well.  Otherwise it won't be able to find the Path.

        Hope this helps.  If it's confusing let me know and I'll try and
    be a little more clear.  It took me a little while to figure it
        out as well.  Now I'm creating fairly nice path mot      _____________________________^_____________________________
       dale r. rogers
       afme support                               MailStop: LR24A4
       [e-mail]             Tel: [phone]
                              e (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4674 Re: Imagine/PC random crashing
8/27/93 08:32 21/ Cliff Lee <cel@ten.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
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On 27 Aug 1993, John Foust / Syndesis Corporation wrote:

> I haven't explored Imagine PC yet, but from what I've seen so far, it
> does not happily co-exist with common memory managers like QEMM, and
> no one's been able to tell me which DOS extender they use.  This
> isn't a good sign.

[Whining deleted]

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Imagine PC will NOT run while EMM386.exe is loaded.  I would imagine that
the same is true with QEMM.  In that these are protected mode applications
and Imagine PC is also.  Can't have two protected mode Apps at the same
time.  If the DOS extenders Impulse were using were DPMI compliant they
might be able to co-exist.

I use HIMEM.SYS only to run Imagine PC.

Cliff Lee
cel2tenet.edu
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4675 Re: Imagine/PC random crashing
8/27/93 08:07 5/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
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Your description of possible programming scenarios with stack pointers was
a real eye opener, my only question, why would a pointer reset to 0 in the
first place?

Andrew.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4676 A4000 and Imagine 2
8/27/93 08:19 31/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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An interesting thing that I found out a month or so ago when I got my
4000/040... (incidentally this also makes me think that Imagine 2 is not
fully '040 'optimized' - for a lack of a better word).

After installing all my software on the 4000, I of course decided to have
a play with Imagine. I ran it, and... the machine crashed! Ok it got one
of those unrecoverable, 'Recovarable' errors. Well, I tried again, and
this time got to the Project editor and everything crashed! This is funy I
thought... No one has mentioned this on the IML in the past 4-5 months.
Ok, I tried a couple more times and still no luck.
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Well, then I thought, 'what is it that I have in my setup that is
different to the default Imagine sve to have
the option to load all modules set as True. This was a bit annoying since
I only had 6 Meg in the machine. I now hat resin factory).

A friend also had this problem, and until I told him how to fix it, he
found that turning the Data Cache aourse
the speed suffers.
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Anyway, just a bit of trivia for you guys. This may have been reported in
the past and I'm sorry if I'm repeating it.

Incidentally, this setting seems to have no effect on the PC.

Nik.
[e-mail]


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4677 Re: Imagine/PC random crashing
8/27/93 09:06 16/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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Did you get your program written?

 your incredible program.  What was that program anyway, I forgot.
Something about a raytracer that supported ALL the latested features and took
input from a microphone about what you wanted the animation to look like..???;)

Well, is it done?  Wherem Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
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21400.3.1.4678 Imagine/PC random crashing
8/27/93 09:40 17/ [e-mail] (William E. Costello)
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   Did you get your program written?

   I thought you promised us you wouldn't rejoin the list until you were through
   with your incredible program.  What was that program anyway, I forgot.
   Something about a raytracer that supported ALL the latested features and took
   input from a microphone about what you wanted the animation to look like..???;)

   Well, is it done?  Where is it?  Can we download it?

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subscribe age was not necessary, and the next time you try to coerce someone
into a fight, do it on your own time.

bill.
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21400.3.1.4679 Re: IMAGINE DEFAULTSof 32 (31%)
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Well, it seems that no one answered my original question(although some came
close).  NO SPECULATIONS OR SUGGESTIONS FOR FUTURE VERSIONS PLEASE!!!!!  If
it can't be done, a simple "It can't be done" would suffice.  If it can be
done...how?

What I want:

   When I first start up Imagine, open a new project, open a new subproject,
go into the detail editor, select load object, the file requestor pops up.
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I want the directory in the file requestor to be the directory where *my*
object files are kept and it just so happens that this is not where Imagine
looks.  Can I change where Imagine originallyget put in a startup file when I installed Imagine?  Could I change
the default directories?

To those of you who seemed to understand and (it sounds like) are having
the same problem as me(on the first load, having to change directories),
Command really badly right now:(  Damn
Fault tolerent machine won't stop crashing!  Piece of &^%#, mother (*&#ing
#%^$ box! GRRRR!!! Ah, there, I feel somewhat better now.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

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"And of course, I'm a genius, so p(mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4680 Re: A4000 and Imagine 2
8/27/93 10:37 16/ [e-mail] (le.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
movI of course decided to have
> a play with Imagine. I ran it, and... the machine crashed! Ok it got one
>
> Well, then I thougto have
> the option to load all modules set as True. This was a bit annoying since

The exact same thing happened to me yeste config from my 3000 with that bit set
TRUE, then move it over to the 4000.  Will this work?  Haven't tried it
yet.

--
J
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4681 Imagine 3.0
8/26/93 10:33 11/ [e-mail] (Paul Kolenbrander)
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Now that Impulse is connected here I'd like to ask them one question that's
been uppermost in my mind for the last few weeks... Now here goes:

Does Imagine 3.0 (Amiga version) come with a 'copy-protection' dongKolenbrander  \ InterNet: [e-mail]
Turfveldenstraat 37 \ Fido: 2:2802/123.1 Paul Kolenbrander
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Voice: [phone] | Timezone:GMT+1(mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4682 Re: Imagine/PC random crashing
8/27/93 15:57 15/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
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-----prior to running.
> --Rick
>

Rick,

Nope, as an old hand at the compatibility game with Dos/Windows and
Netware, first ngs from my
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the first to go! That's one of the nice things about DOS 6.0, able to step
through config.sys lines.

Andrew.
Commaling Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4683 Re: A4000 and Imagine 2
8/27/93 17:06 53/ Johan An0 of 53 (18%)
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>A4000 and Imagine 2

>An interesting thing that I found out a month or so ago when I got my
>4000/040... e think that Imagine 2 is not
>fully '040 'optimized' - for a lack of a better word).
>
>After installing all my software on the 4000, I of course decided to have
>a play with Imagine. I ran it, and... the machine crashed! Ok it got one
>of those unreis is funy I
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subscribe unsubscribe headernths.
>Ok, I tried a couple more times and still no luck.
>Well, then I thought, 'what is it that I have in my setup that is setup?' - I found it... You have to have
>the option to load all modules set as True. This was a bit annoying since
>I only had 6 Meg in the machine. I now have 10, and can't afford any more
>since the Ram prices have doubled. :-( (Trust me to get the opyBack off worked - but of course
Command:
>the speed suffers.
>Anyway, just a bit of trivia for you guys. This may have beif I'm repeating it.
>
>Incidentally, this setting seems to have no effect on the PC.
>
>Nik.
>[e-mail]

How, Imagine are NOT optimized for 040 (yet)

Well you are the first person I know who has trouble with Imagine
on an A4000, I h4000 since november 1992
and it has never been any problem.
The only explanation I can give to you (a few actually)
is that Your copy of Imagine is "broken" (there could be a
checksum error or anything like that, that makes the program crash)
Or (probarbly not) something is wrong with your amiga.
Command:
I don't know if the FP-version of Imagine may crash on a 68EC040
(you  should check that, because some older A4000:s were
 delivered with that such a processor)
You should also check that the 68040.library is in libs.
I have all cache's on, and copyback mode on too
(and that works fine)

Please try to use another copy of Imagine, if that not work
then examine your harddrive for block-errors etc.

Command:
That's it, and that's that

        Johan
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4684 Re: playianim&stuff
8/27/93 19:37 21/ [e-mail]
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Thanks Dale;
    I will try this over the weekend, I think it's beginning to make
sense to me and I am even beginning to understand how complicated you
can get with motion camera lights objects on crossing paths (this was
in the book but i'm still working it out). It really seems fantastic.
Oh I did use a couple objects from boing, the klingon warbird
destroyed the battlestar galactica I used f/x explode here and a
ball.obj for the torpedo. (cant run essence till my accellerator gets
here.) it then turned and fired on the hubble just past the camera's
left shoulder.(here I used explode with fireworks) I wanted to use
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f/x wave and have the klingon ship cloak and end but alas on a stock
1200 memory is limiting (I,m amazed that 2 meg internal can handle an
os imagine and all that stuff I explode at one time.) I wish the
project editor were set up so when you select the frames you want to
render and then render the curser would return so I could go back to
the forms editor and begin a new idea while letting the other project
cook. I feel this would significantly enhance the learning curve.
                                            Again Thanks
                                                Lesk

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 P.S. I just finished finals I'm Really going to have fun now.....
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4685 Re: Imagine/PC random crashing
8/27/93 20:49 15/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
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>
>
> Andrew> That's one of the nice things about DOS 6.0, able to step
> Andrew> through config.sys lines.
>
> Glenn>        Really?  How?
>

When your PC, running DOS 6.0 I assume <yeah, yeah>, prints the message on
screen "Loading MS-DOS", press F8. Your system will now prompt you to okay
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the execution of each line on of your config.sys file. Note, it will
prompt you to run autoexec.bat, but it will just run the whole file not
line by line.

Andrew.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4686 Re: A4000 and Imagine 2
8/27/93 22:05 19/ [e-mail] (Marcelino A Vilaubi)
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> > different to the default Imagine setup?' - I found it... You have to have
> > the option to load all modules set as True. This was a bit annoying since
> now.  Guess I'll have to save the config from my 3000 with that bit set
> TRUE, then move it over to the 4000.  Will this work?  Haven't tried it
> yet.
>
> --
> Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
>

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Actually it would be easier to run Imagine on the 4000, then run go to the
prefs editor in Imagine and just load in the config file you want. You can
set the Load All bit and you're set. I tried this today and it seemed to
work fine.

--
Marcelino Vilaubi
[e-mail]      [e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4687 Re: A4000 and Imagine 2
8/28/93 00:17 29/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 27 Aug 1993, Jeff Walkup wrote:

> Nikola Vukovljak writes:
> >
> > After installing all my software on the 4000, I of course decided to have
> > a play with Imagine. I ran it, and... the machine crashed! Ok it got one
> >
> > Well, then I thought, 'what is it that I have in my setup that is
> > different to the default Imagine setup?' - I found it... You have to have
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> > the option to load all modules set as True. This was a bit annoying since
>
> The exact same thing happened to me yesterday...  at least I know why
> now.  Guess I'll have to save the config from my 3000 with that bit set
> TRUE, then move it over to the 4000.  Will this work?  Haven't tried it
> yet.

You could do that, or rename the config, copy the old config from Imagine
Disk, start the program, open the Preferences, load the renamed config,
and set the bit to True. Then just hit Save.
Command:
This should do the trick.

Either way it should work.

Nik.
[e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4688 Re: A4000 and Imagine 2
8/28/93 00:48 22/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 27 Aug 1993, Brian Matthew Aljian wrote:

> >A friend also had this problem, and until I told him how to fix it, he
> >found that turning the Data Cache and CopyBack off worked - but of course
> >the speed suffers.
>
> I believe you're supposed to turn off the DataCache and CopyBack
> before you load Imagine.  Then you can turn them back on AFTER
> Imagine loads to get better speed.
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>
> Hope this helps (I don't have an A4000)?
>

I found another fix. Just make Imagine load all the modules at startup,
rather than loading one at a time.

Nik.
[e-mail]

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4689 Re: A4000 and Imagine 2
8/28/93 00:50 20/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Fri, 27 Aug 1993, Marcelino A Vilaubi wrote:

> > now.  Guess I'll have to save the config from my 3000 with that bit set
> > TRUE, then move it over to the 4000.  Will this work?  Haven't tried it
> > yet.
> >
> >
>
> Actually it would be easier to run Imagine on the 4000, then run go to the
> prefs editor in Imagine and just load in the config file you want. You can
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> set the Load All bit and you're set. I tried this today and it seemed to
> work fine.
>
This won't work if your config file already has this bit set to F though.
You can't get past the intro screen. At least I couldn't.

Nik.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4690 Re: A4000 and Imagine 2
8/27/93 12:34 30/ [e-mail] (Paul Kolenbrander)
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Hello Nikola Vukovljak,
On 28 AUG 1993 01:19:25 you said regarding A4000 and Imagine 2:

> An interesting thing that I found out a month or so ago when I got my
> 4000/040... (incidentally this also makes me think that Imagine 2 is not
> fully '040 'optimized' - for a lack of a better word).
>
> After installing all my software on the 4000, I of course decided to have
> a play with Imagine. I ran it, and... the machine crashed! Ok it got one
> of those unrecoverable, 'Recovarable' errors. Well, I tried again, and
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> this time got to the Project editor and everything crashed! This is funy I
> thought... No one has mentioned this on the IML in the past 4-5 months.
> Ok, I tried a couple more times and still no luck.

Weird. When I changed last November from my A2000, I just backed it all up to
Syquest and restored it to my A4000. No settings changed. And it works pretty
well with both caches on.  Ok, it crashes once a while, but it already did so
on my A2000b.  Could it be that you have one of the 2.0 versions that's known
to give trouble? Here's the size of my executable file (030 version) 595700.

Command:
CYa, Paul
--
-Life is like a shit sandwich. The more bread you have, the less
 shit you have to eat.

--
Paul Kolenbrander  \ InterNet: [e-mail]
Turfveldenstraat 37 \ Fido: 2:2802/123.1 Paul Kolenbrander
NL-5632 XH EINDHOVEN | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4691 A4000 and Imagine 2.0
8/28/93 22:34 21/ [e-mail]
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Hey guys

> > The exact same thing happened to me yesterday...  at least I know why
> > now.  Guess I'll have to save the config from my 3000 with that bit set
> > TRUE, then move it over to the 4000.  Will this work?  Haven't tried it
> > yet.
>
> You could do that, or rename the config, copy the old config from Imagine
> Disk, start the program, open the Preferences, load the renamed config,
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> and set the bit to True. Then just hit Save.
> This should do the trick.

You don't have to LOAD Imagine on any setup just to edit the config file.
Any text editor can do this, as it is an ASCII text file. In the
"# Misc. Stuff" category, change the "LOAD" parameter to "T" and save the
file. That's the equivalent to loading Imagine and setting it from there.

HermoNir
Author of "THIS EXPLANATION"
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[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4692 SUBSCRIBE
8/29/93 00:31 2/ [e-mail] (Jonathan Trachtinberg)
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please add me to the mailing list
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4693 Re: A4000 and Imagine 2
8/28/93 07:46 24/ [e-mail] (Paul Kolenbrander)
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Hello Johan Andersson,
On 28 AUG 1993 02:06:36 you said regarding Re: A4000 and Imagine 2:

> I don't know if the FP-version of Imagine may crash on a 68EC040
> (you  should check that, because some older A4000:s were
>  delivered with that such a processor)

Hold on. No *production* A4000 has been delivered with an EC040 processor.
They all caontain a full 68040 processor. The only A4000's I know of with
EC versions are a couple of pre-prodoction ones that might have been set
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with some developers. And I think the original poster might have something.
ImagineFP works like a charm on my A4000/040 and yes, the bit for 'Load all
Modules' is set to TRUE. This might be causing the problem. If that's so
then it's just a question of using an Imagine.config file where the value
of that bit is set to TRUE. Impulse? Can you give us the position and value
of that bit in the config file? So unsuspecting A4000 users can modify their
config file to get Imagine working?

CYa, Paul
--
Command:
Paul Kolenbrander  \ InterNet: [e-mail]
Turfveldenstraat 37 \ Fido: 2:2802/123.1 Paul Kolenbrander
NL-5632 XH EINDHOVEN | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4694 Re: IMAGINE DEFAULTS
8/30/93 08:50 47/ [e-mail] ()
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On Aug 27, 11:28am, Thomas Setzer wrote:

> I want the directory in the file requestor to be the directory where *my*
> object files are kept and it just so happens that this is not where Imagine
> looks.  Can I change where Imagine originally looks for files?  ie  are
> these default directories hardcoded or are they configurable.  Does this
> stuff get put in a startup file when I installed Imagine?  Could I change
> the default directories?
>
>
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> Tom Setzer
> [e-mail]

As you probably know, Imagine look first in the directory which it has be loaded
from.
So, in this directory (called Imagine :-), I have the program, the Projects
directory, Brushes, Objects (with objects I use in different animation, such a
basic cube), Textures, etc...
All my brushmaps are located in Brushes (i.e. I write Brushes/gluglu.iff in the
brushmap requester). The same for my textures.
Command:
If you go into the Objects directory and you want to go to the parent directory,
the parent button doesn't work. So I hit the Disks button, then return and I'm
back in the original directory where Imagine has been lauched from, with all my
Projects-Brushes-Objects-Textures directories.
Then, if I want to move all the project on another computer in order to render
it, I just make a directory containing the program itself, the config file, the
Projects directory with only my projects in it and the Brushes directory with
the brushes I use for this animation (idem with the textures). I copy all that
where I want and I never need to have logical (i.e. assigns) or physical
directories with the same hierarchy as on my hard disk.
Command:

Hope you understand what I want to explain, my mother language is not english
(in fact it is french) and this things are not too easy to explain.

Hope it will help, too.

Robin
                                                       \|/
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4695 Net Intellects
8/30/93 06:59 147/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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NOTE: This post was sent to the [e-mail] address
      and is being forwarded to the list by me. Please be certain when replying
      to IML posts that your REPLY function is grabbing the correct address:
      [e-mail]
      If not, be certain to either change the address, or at least Cc: a copy
      there. Thanks.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: your mail
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To: [e-mail]
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1993 02:23:29 -0600 (MDT)
In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "[e-mail]" at Aug 27, 93 09:08:04 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Net-intellect Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]> writes:
Command:

I didn't say I was a net-intellect... I just said I was a
super human being.. 8^)

>probably to blame.  (We might leave these three million reasons as an
>exercise to the reader, except then Kiernan would post the answer to
>the list, in C, PDP/11 assembler and Pascal.)

Hey... I'm not that old..
I hope, or rather I wish, it was less quantity and more quality...
Command:
Of software... I think the only reason why anyone is buying Imagine
is it is cheap, fast and has a lot of features, but some are unimpressed
(and I can name some names) with the user interface, the obvious
coding practices, design, the work arounds, etc. I like the output
of Imagine, and I shouldn't complain, but if they plan to raise the price
to 649, they better improve the quality (clean up thier code)
as well as provide more features.. It is not going to help them with the
Student PC users which can get a copy of Studio 3D for 500 bucks..

If they want to raise the price, its fine with me, it is thier
Command:
product, just don't blaim me if thier sales halt and pirating
increases by 2000%

>And I know it wouldn't feel like a posting from me unless I
>complained about bandwidth, so here goes: I do not understand why
>people post both to the list and the original poster.  (Ex. To:
>[e-mail], [e-mail] )  Even if your mailer
>does this automatically, I'll bet it has a way to delete one of the
>references.  Why should the poster get TWO copies?  And these
>quote-18-lines-then-"I heartily agree" postings don't belong on the
Command:
>list, either.

Well, I've got two accounts, one here and one on chicoma
(which is where I used to reply to this mailing list)...
On chicoma we got 4 Inidgos and a Challenge, Irix is fine,
but we started having problems, so I started using this account
to reply to the Imagine listserv.. Dave (head of the listserv)
did something to the listserv that makes it hard to reply..
I think he has two mail addresses for messages and replies,,
so when I reply it doesn't (or it seems not to) go to the list..
Command:
All I know is it comes in, and I reply to it.. I don't expect
to have to learn every mail system that I use becuase
it is confusing enough to know what system your on and what that
system has, etc...

Anyways, now I'm using Elm, and some kind of WordProcessor-like
editor.. And I have no idea how it will send my mail.

There has always been a dicussion about having long letters..
usually it is a commercial-line vs. free-access-line war..
Command:
I think it is silly.. I mean, for a long time before most people
knew Email or internet existed, there wasn't so much fuss
about letter size.. Now that we are getting fidonetters,
people from compuserve, etc.. We are limited to thier mail box
size and thier bandwidth... What?!!!

You have a choice.. I can either write one long letter, or a set of a
bunch of tiny ones..

>And there's been goofy talk about the magic of compiler optimizers.
Command:
>What do you think this is, Spinal Tap's amplifier?  You think the

I'm not that type..
I don't ever remember saying anything about optimizer settings..
You optimize your code... You either rewrite it,
modularize it and optimize the modules, test, monitor a
programs performance, find a faster algorithm, heck any programmer
should know by now that there are clean and fast ways to write code..
The compiler is only smart enough to optimize common things, are small
things.. Otherwise the compiler could write programs itself..
Command:
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the advantage of using a
tree structure over a array, or seeing the best uses for stacks,
queues, recursion... It is the programmer who decides how things should
be implemented, but the cleaner the design is, the easier it is to
modify..

>quality assurance person worth their paycheck will not let the
>programmer suddenly change the compiler options without thoroughly
>testing the program again with the new options.

Command:
How does one determine if a programmer is good or not?
What do you think a programmer's emphasis on his style should be??

I can tell you up front that I define a good programmer as someone
which puts priority on getting a paycheck or whatever is
most important, but somewhere next to the top of the list
there should be something about "learning about and
writing code that is clean, robust, flexible, fast, and engenious."

I have no respect for those who would rather keep thier style
Command:
than accept a new one, and who aren't willing to try new approaches
toa problem.. I've found that one thing that always kept
me from writing software was the level of professionalism
I was supposed to have to write what I wanted to write...
I mean, I wouldn't have written my Ray-Sequencer program if
had continued to think that professional code must be a certain
way (for instance, I thought that it would be bad to resort to using
someone else's software to do my magic..)

Although, my emphasis is not on finding kludgy ways of doing things..
Command:
I always try to make enough room where kludges are placed
for me to change later.. I like clean code but I place less
emphasis on optimization in the design stage..

>
>It's far easier to stay with the most stable compiler options.  Far
>greater gains in speed come from changes in algorithm, which is
>tougher to do than turning the knob to "11".

I know... but it isn't quite as hard if you are always making room for
Command:
change.. If you like to optimize your code, without any care for
flexibility of the optimizations or the code which is being optimized,
you bet it is going to be tough to optimize a algorithm.
It all matters on what you think is the best way to write code..
I know programmers who place priority on getting something
done than having to deal with it. I'm not saying I don't,
but if I am able to, I will make my code as flexible and robust as
I think is possible. You can't go wrong if you search for ways to
improve your code.. Right?

Command:
I'm not stupid.. I mean, I find reading programming books
"good reading material".. I like programming, I like solving
puzzles, I like writing my own software... If I fuss about
something, it is usually because I think it could be done
better... If not that, I believe could do it better.

(I'm going to sleep at the terminal... Later)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4696 Long Posts, off-topic
8/30/93 07:52 15/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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@$#%$!!!

Kiernan, get your own soapbox if you want to sound of at obnoxious length
on programming generalities and CS 101 platitudes.  IMO, people subscribe to
this list to trade info about Imagine and closely related topics, not to
read your crap.  If you have a specific answer to a specific problem, or
vice versa, great.  Otherwise, keep it off this list!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161
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   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4697 Re: IMAGINE DEFAULTS
8/30/93 08:33 21/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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[e-mail] writes:
>
> On Aug 27, 11:28am, Thomas Setzer wrote:
>
> > I want the directory in the file requestor to be the directory where *my*
> > object files are kept [...]

You'd need to put the .config file in the directory you want, cd there,
and run Imagine (with its full path).  Also make sure that you have the
path for the .pic file defined in the config, else copy it to that dir.
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>If you go into the Objects directory and you want to go to the parent directory
> the parent button doesn't work.

You can get around this by erasing everything in the "Drawer" box.  This
will put you back in the default dir (where you were cd'd when you ran
Imagine).

--
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Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4698 Re: IMAGINE DEFAULTS
8/30/93 11:20 16/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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So, it is hard coded.  OK.  Thats too bad, but I think I can live with it with
the suggestions given by others.

Impulse, this would be a nice 3.x feature.  Just throw the default directories
into the config file or make Imagine first look in Imagine:Objects for objects,
Imagine:Textures for textures, etc, where upon installation Imagine: is put in
one of the startup files, thus making it user definable.  Just a freindly
suggestion. :)

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Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4699 Toaster Anyone?
8/30/93 13:08 40/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Howdy HI Renderoids!  :-)



As you know, the NewTek offer for upgrading the Video Toaster
to the new machine ends soon.

This leaves me with a dilemma. I have two Toasters, and ONE Amiga.
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There ain't enough room or money for both of em...SO:

I am offering my original Video Toaster for sale, along with
the new Toaster/Lightwave 3.0 software (a package deal of course).

I will leave it to the reader to determine the value of this
package and make an appropriate offer.

This package will go to the highest bidder as of
Command:
Thursday September 2, 1993.

This Toaster has been used with love and care and has never
exhibited any trouble of any type. Naturally though, it must
be sold in an "as is" condition. But let's face it...
I have an honest face.  ;-)

Send me your best offer (serious offers only please!) and
include information such as...who pays for shipping/insurance,
method of payment, date you can take delivery... and
Command:
email it to me.


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4700 [e-mail]
8/31/93 00:32 7/ [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4701 Ianm player
8/30/93 23:49 20/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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Can anyone illuminate me on why I can't seem to get the @!#$%^&* PLAYIANM
program to work? I used the correct spacing, and have the program in my C dir
as directed, with the anim in my FP subdir. When I type PLAYIANM VIPER.ANM,
all I get is a requester saying "Can't open script file viper.anm/script; is
there something missing, or am I missing something? I'll be getting Steve
Worley's book RSN, and am muddled a bit about the inability to play anim's.
The manual states nothing about scripts, save those in the action editor, and
even those are autogenerated by mouse selection(s) anyway. Any help would be
greatly appreciated, as a neophyte to Imagine (this is my first 3-D program)
I'd like to learn how to use it better, and I feel that the manual barely
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scratches the surface in appropriate use of the program and its utilities.
Thanks again for listening to the same old song and dance, God Bless, BCNU!
                                                           Michel J. Brown

                                  ||   Chiropractor on a comission from GOD
--                              __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
[e-mail] __  _  are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4702 A4000 CPUs
8/31/93 04:10 37/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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>> I don't know if the FP-version of Imagine may crash on a 68EC040
>> (you  should check that, because some older A4000's were
>>  delivered with that such a processor)
>>
>Hold on. No *production* A4000 has been delivered with an EC040 processor.
>They all caontain a full 68040 processor. The only A4000's I know of with
>EC versions are a couple of pre-production ones that might have been set
>with some developers.
>
A friend of mine has the EC040 in his A4000, which he bought from AFEES in
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Germany, back in September of '92. BTW, he is'nt a developer!
>
>And I think the original poster might have something.
>
Like the European Amigas are less powerful? American ones are
better/faster/more expensive? I don't know for sure :-/
>
>ImagineFP works like a charm on my A4000/040 and yes, the bit for 'Load all
>Modules' is set to TRUE.
>
Command:
My config was set from Impulse to true for 'load all modules', and has
never crashed on my system with my Zeus board running full boar:-)
>
>This might be causing the problem.
>
If it is, it's a strange one, that's for sure!
>
>CYa, Paul
>
BCNU, Michel
Command:

                                  ||   Chiropractor on a comission from GOD
--                              __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
[e-mail] __  _  are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4703 Subscribe
8/31/93 02:16 5/ [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4704 From Mike Halvorson
8/31/93 06:39 24/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Greetings Imagineers!  :-)

A day or so ago, I forwarded a letter from Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>
and Impulse's Mike Halvorson responds thusly:

------------Begin Enclosure-------------------------------------
        Got this letter, seems that there is some discussion about our code
and its price.  We think the cost of Imagine is very low when compared to
others who charge and arm and a leg for a dongle to go with it.  Also for
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students we have a special program, also I must admit that any one who is
on the data base as a user would not have to pay retail when they could pay
a small upgrade price.
        Students need support from companies like Impulse, we are here to
help yet we will continue to add to Imagine and use the type of code that
we have to this point.  I challenge any programmer to do the following,
dont sit on the fence and yell about the problems, call me and I will give
them a job if they can do better than the staff that is presently
responsible for the code.  It is very easy to make feeble attmepts at beign
critical but the real tale of the tape is whe you are asked to put your own
Command:
code on the line.  We are always looking for good people to help us do a
better job.  Show up and give it up, we are open minded.
        Mike
----------End Enclosure-----------------------------------------
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4705 UNSUBSCRIBE
8/31/93 11:50 3/ "Harvey Bernard" <[e-mail]>
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Bernard Harvey
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4706 Scenary
8/31/93 08:05 7/ [e-mail] (Estrada Zamora Jose Estehel-FQ
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Hi everybody, Someone of you Knows a program in whicha a can generate a Terrain or scenary and save it in Imagine Object form ?, is URGENT, because I have the
Impulse's Terrain but it doesn't work well.

Thanks a lot.
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4707 Scenary
8/31/93 08:05 7/ [e-mail] (Estrada Zamora Jose Estehel-FQ
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Hi everybody, Someone of you Knows a program in whicha a can generate a Terrain or scenary and save it in Imagine Object form ?, is URGENT, because I have the
Impulse's Terrain but it doesn't work well.

Thanks a lot.
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4708 From Mike Halvorson
8/31/93 11:12 10/ Charles F. Kane <[e-mail]>
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Apparently, Dave, you forgot to tell Mike the cardinal rule of the IML:
When Kiernan Holland posts, nobody listens. Never waste your time responding,
since it will just incite more drivel. Ignore him, fine, hire a hit-man to
take him out, even better, but never, ever respond. These are hard-learned
lessons. :)

-CFK

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4709 Modeling.jpg uploaded to AMINET
8/31/93 12:25 23/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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Hi gang

I just uploaded my lastest creation to Aminet it should filter down to
the pix/3d directory soon.
Here is a copy of the modeling.txt file that explains it.
--------------------
Here is a rendering I whipped up with the latest free datasets from
Viewpoint (tm).
This is a rather "interesting" image of someone hand painting a 57 chevy
that is sticking out of their monitor. The wireframe part of the
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car is actually a brushmap on the monitor.
There are a few things that went wrong.  The fingers turned green due
to the stong green light on the desk and the walls in the back don't quite
go off the screen like they should.
Other than those minor things, it came out quite well.
Enjoy

Adam Benjamin   [e-mail]  [e-mail]
IMAGE stats:
rendered with Imagine 2.0 1024x768 24bit
Command:
reduced to JPEG 640x440 on a PC.
Imagine objects are my own except for the girls arm and the car.

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4710 Re:  From Mike Halvorson
8/31/93 11:50 13/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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As administrator of the List, it would be inappropriate of me
to

1. Censor messages based on the poster.
2. Tell you I agree with your view.

or

3. Have a public opinion about someone...no matter how
   overbearing they become.
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:-)

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4711 Terrain
8/31/93 18:57 6/ [e-mail]
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I have Terrain, and still use it. I've never been able to get Imagine to
read the objects, ditto for the various conversion programs. But Turbo
Silver reads them, and if you then save the object from TS, Imagine can
read it. As an alternative, I would suggest Vista Pro, which will write
TSilver/Imagine objects. That's too bad about Terrain, it's a really neat
program.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4712 Playianm
8/31/93 18:52 2/ [e-mail]
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You must have rendered the pics in the Impulse rgbn format. Also, make
sure you've cd'd to the directory where the animation is.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4713 Re: Imagine 3.0
9/1/93 09:05 22/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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NOTE: This post was sent to the [e-mail] address
      and is being forwarded to the list by me. Please be certain when replying
      to IML posts that your REPLY function is grabbing the correct address:
      [e-mail]
      If not, be certain to either change the address, or at least Cc: a copy
      there. Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: your mail
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To: [e-mail]
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 17:16:44 -0600 (MDT)
In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "[e-mail]" at Aug 27, 93 01:36:20 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Content-Length: 141

>Does Imagine 3.0 (Amiga version) come with a 'copy-protection' dongle?
Command:

I hope not, besides they wouldn't get anybody's money if it did..
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4714 Imagine PC crashing
9/1/93 09:39 15/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
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Just as an aside, I discovered that *some* of my problems with Imagine/PC
can be traced back to the netware drivers that I have. I've tested the
program since I first started using it both running from the server, and
running on a local hard-drive with no network drivers loaded. The Netware
odi-drivers seem to really affect the Action editor, almost always crashes
when editing a timeline.

This doesn't really suprise me, since I have a feeling that there is
probably a memory conflict between Imagine and the network drivers, which
I've seen with other dos apps. I would have brought this up sooner, but I
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only just brought up my Novell server at home, so I wanted to test it for
a while.

Andrew.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4715 SPD enhanced
9/1/93 10:51 51/ Eric Haines <[e-mail]>
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While this doesn't directly concern you all, someone out there might get
inspired to write a show*.c file or an output creator for the package.  Then
we could compare performance of the commercial renderers and ray tracers out
there a bit easier.


Announcing an enhanced Standard Procedural Databases package.

Alexander Enzmann and Eduard Schwan took the SPD package (which, as you may
know, generates procedural models for testing ray tracer speed) and added a
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ton of code to it.  The new code now outputs to these formats:

        NFF (used by MTV ray tracer; but the SPD always output using this)
        POV-Ray 1.0
        Polyray v1.4, v1.5
        Vivid 2.0
        Rayshade
        RTrace 8.0.0
        Art 2.3
        QRT 1.5
Command:
        POV-Ray 2.0 (no, it's not officially out yet: format subject to change)
        PLG format for use with "rend386"
        Raw triangle output

It can also output the models as line drawings to the screen for previewing:
IBM, Mac, and HPUX drivers are provided, and new drivers are trivial to write
(i.e. draw a line).

There is also a program, showdxf, which will convert or display DXF files
(actually, a limited subset of these - just 3DFACE entities).  There are two
Command:
sample DXF files, a skull and an f117, included.

There's also a sample code file which can be used as a template for writing
your own output programs.  What's nice about this package is that by writing a
program representing your model (or interpreting your model as input a la
showdxf.c), you can then convert it to a wide number of formats.  I'd love to
see more show*.c interpreters (e.g. one for Wavefront obj format so that the
cool Viewpoint models at avalon.chinalake.navy.mil can be converted) and other
output formats - send them on!

Command:
I did some polishing and whatnot to the distribution and have placed the whole
thing at weedeater.math.yale.edu's /incoming directory as SPDup31.tar.Z and
SPDup31.zip .  Hopefully I didn't futz things too badly (I suspect there needs
to be some file renaming for the Mac version), but let me know if I did.
Anyway, I hope that the permanent home of the code will be
princeton.edu:/pub/Graphics somewhere.

Enjoy (I certainly did!),

Eric Haines
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4716 Re: From Mike Halvorson
9/1/93 12:15 63/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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Should I? well, yeah...

> and Impulse's Mike Halvorson responds thusly:
>
>       Got this letter, seems that there is some discussion about our code
> and its price.  We think the cost of Imagine is very low when compared to
> others who charge and arm and a leg for a dongle to go with it.  Also for

Agreed, well worth the price.  It would be nice to see some free bug fixes
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like some of those "other arm and leg" programs, though.  We shouldn't have
to wait for the next major release(or call and ask for secret releases) to
get bug fixes. An Imagine 2.1b.4x would have been nice:)

>       Students need support from companies like Impulse, we are here to

Users need support<PERIOD>  Especially from programs as complex as Imagine.
If you are changing your tune(way of doing business), as you seem to indicate
by joining this list(for which we all applaud you), you should work on your
customer support.  People(especially you Mike) who answer the phone at Impulse
Command:
should be kind, courteous, and go out of their way to help.  After all, its
our dime we use to call.  I and many others have often gotten rude,
condescending attitudes from you and your staff.  Thats just bad business.

> help yet we will continue to add to Imagine and use the type of code that
> we have to this point.  I challenge any programmer to do the following,
> dont sit on the fence and yell about the problems, call me and I will give
> them a job if they can do better than the staff that is presently
> responsible for the code.  It is very easy to make feeble attmepts at beign
> critical but the real tale of the tape is whe you are asked to put your own
Command:
> code on the line.  We are always looking for good people to help us do a
> better job.  Show up and give it up, we are open minded.

I'm not gonna criticize your coding techniques, like some young foolish new
programmer might be tempted to do, just because he heard about a bug;) I can't
even picture a test plan for something like Imagine.  I will point out some
things that I think could make Imagine a better product.

A better manual. Thank god its out of house this time, you can't even write
a frigging paragraph;) (dont wory, mi speling and gramer ain't that good ether;)
Command:
                    ^^note smiley

Bug fixes. (see above)

User support.  You would probably need less with the improved manual.  Being
   on this list is a good start.

Better non-raytrace rendering.  As many people on the net argue, ray-tracing
  takes too long for production needs.  It would be nice to see some more
  work done on the scanline renderer.
Command:

Other than that, its sounds like 3.0 will take care of most of my wish list.
Keep up the good work.  And remember, this is meant to be constructive
criticism.  Anywhere in the above where I seem to be ripping on you, I'm
just pokin fun:) (kinda hurts when I poke in those sensitive areas, don't it;)


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

Command:
"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4717 Re: A4000 CPUs
8/31/93 18:33 37/ [e-mail] (Paul Kolenbrander)
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Hello Michel J. Brown,
On 31 AUG 1993 03:10:33 you said regarding A4000 CPUs:

> >They all caontain a full 68040 processor. The only A4000's I know of with
> >EC versions are a couple of pre-production ones that might have been set
> >with some developers.
> >
> A friend of mine has the EC040 in his A4000, which he bought from AFEES in
> Germany, back in September of '92. BTW, he is'nt a developer!

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I checked and have been assured no production machines should have been
shipped with an EC 040. Especially as Dave Haynie posted a while back that
the EC 040 would never be made as they needed the MMU for Zorro-II mapping
or something similar. This does not go for the A4000/030 though. You might
follow this up in c.s.a.hardware. Dave Haynie should be able to clarify it
all.

> >And I think the original poster might have something.
> >
> Like the European Amigas are less powerful? American ones are
Command:
> better/faster/more expensive? I don't know for sure :-/

Naah. There identical. Well almost, their PSU's are set to 110V instead
of 220V. And they use NTSC instead of PAL. :-)

> My config was set from Impulse to true for 'load all modules', and has
> never crashed on my system with my Zeus board running full boar:-)

Same here. That 'Load All Modules' seems to be the clincher. And now I
find out the Imagine configfile is straight ASCII. :-)
Command:

CYa, Paul
---
Paul Kolenbrander  \ InterNet: [e-mail]
Turfveldenstraat 37 \ Fido: 2:2802/123.1 Paul Kolenbrander
NL-5632 XH EINDHOVEN | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4718 IMPULSE...SO LONG FOR NOW
9/1/93 14:52 59/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Yaaaahoooo Imagineers!  :-)


Talked to Mr. Mike "Impulse" Halvorson yesterday afternoon
and thought I would bounce a few of his thoughts off of
you and see what kind of general consensus we might reach.

Mike feels there are legitimate questions asked and
answered in our forum (we already know that)... but is
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also concerned about the amount of general noise
regarding other things. As we all know... general noise
(including this message  ;-) generally detracts from
significant information exchange and bores the reader.

Mike is of the opinion that he is far more interested in
answering the technical questions asked by registered
users than get bogged down in unrestrained gabbing.
(I might add- these are my terms, not Mike's).
He would be happy to continue monitoring the IML and
Command:
answer questions for us... but he suggests that we run
a "digest" format.

This means that every day or two, you would receive a
package format compilation of the IML from me
that would include all the IML exchange since your last
mailing.

Mike feels this would allow me to edit (NOT censor) and therefore
minimize the noise factor. He would then feel freer to offer
Command:
technical assistance on specific Imagine related problems.

I am also entertaining the notion of a moderated USENET
newsgroup (which would be an echo of the IML).

These are just thoughts being kicked around, so feel free
to drop me any feelings you might have regarding them.

IN THE MEANTIME, Impulse has decided to temporarily drop off
the IML, while I help them set up a more convenient
Command:
local access method of receiving Internet mail.
Mike assures me that he would like to continue reading
legitimate Imagine question / answer exchange and they will
be back with us shortly. Shortly after mailing this
post, I will be removing Impulse from the list, and when
I get them ready to roll under a new access, their address
and status will be announced to you all.


Anyway, consider yourself informed, d00dz.   :-)
Command:


____            ____
 |  \  /\\    //     Dave Wickard  [phone]  "I wish more men sent flowers".
 |   )/__\\  //--    [e-mail]      "Mormons can't give flowers?
_|__//    \\//___    [e-mail]      I thought they just couldn't dance!"
 ________________    [e-mail]         "NO! I just wish someone would send flowers!"
/_______________/    [e-mail]     "Well why do they have to be Mormon?"
                                                    -Sam and Rebecca on CHEERS
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4719 Re: IMPULSE...SO LONG FOR NOW
9/1/93 18:18 65/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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MIKE H. (to skip noise, GOTO 10:)

> Mike feels this would allow me to edit (NOT censor) and therefore
> minimize the noise factor.

What would you edit that would not be censoring?  What is noise?
Why doesn't he just do what I assume most of us do, delete articles that
aren't of interest. It's a pain, but...

If he wants tech questions, lets get some going.  I've seen a lot of things
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Command:
on the net that were never answered before Impulse(aka Mike) came on line.

10:

Why doesn't fog over fog work(or does it, I can't remember)?  Is this fixed
in 3.0?

What is the format for textures for Imagine 2.0?

What is the format for effects for Imagine 2.0?
Command:

This is the perfect forum to disclose this information.  Only people on this
list would know, so they wouldn't need to flood your phone lines with questions
about texture formats and effect formats; they could just ask them here.

Why does making objects big, speed up rendering?  Why does Imagine slow **way**
down when you zoom up real close on an object?

Any suggestions on how to get a good star field(that you can see through
transparent objects)?
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What causes problems with slice?  How can I avoid this problem(besides "don't
use slice")?

Is it true that some of the features in the Grow FX are not working?

Why doesn't Terrain(?) work with Imagine 2.0?(saw this on the list???)

Will 3.0 support in some way cycle objects?  If not, will there be a conversion
to the new format?
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These are just a few.  Anyone else gonna ask before it is too late?


>He would then feel freer to offer
> technical assistance on specific Imagine related problems.

Answer away...

Command:

Perhaps the archiver could send him mail each time an archive is released. Or
someone could send Imagine specific questions that no one seems able or willing
to answer.

Mike...Mike...are you still there...Mike?????

Oh well.  Thanks for all your help...:(


Command:
Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4720 Re: Scenary
9/1/93 20:45 13/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Tue, 31 Aug 1993, Estrada Zamora Jose Estehel-FQ wrote:

> Hi everybody, Someone of you Knows a program in whicha a can generate a Terrain or scenary and save it in Imagine Object form ?, is URGENT, because I have the
> Impulse's Terrain but it doesn't work well.

Try Vista Pro 3. It can save the landscape as TurboSilver file which can
be loaded into Imagine.

Nik.
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Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4721 Vertex 2.0
9/2/93 05:35 4/ [e-mail]
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Has anyone received Vertex 2.0 through the upgrade offer yet from the Art
Department? I've been waiting 3 weeks so far.

Don
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4722 Polygon triangulation
9/2/93 06:11 11/ [e-mail] (Stephen Pietrowicz)
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I use the Imagine object editor to do all my modeling, and one thing I
really miss having is an automatic triangulation routine, like the one
Sculpt had.  Sometimes it takes longer to put all the triangles into an
outline than it takes to make the outline of the object itself.

Does anyone else here think this would be a useful thing for Imagine 3.0
to include?  I'm kinda surprised that something this basic isn't in there
already.  I want to spend my time building objects, not triangulating
polygons!  :-)

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Steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4723 Re: IMPULSE...SO LONG FOR NOW
9/2/93 06:00 45/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> Mike feels this would allow me to edit (NOT censor) and therefore
> minimize the noise factor. He would then feel freer to offer
> technical assistance on specific Imagine related problems.

Let me guess... The guy is a total control freak?!

> IN THE MEANTIME, Impulse has decided to temporarily drop off
> the IML, while I help them set up a more convenient
> local access method of receiving Internet mail.
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> Mike assures me that he would like to continue reading
> legitimate Imagine question / answer exchange and they will
> be back with us shortly. Shortly after mailing this
> post, I will be removing Impulse from the list, and when
> I get them ready to roll under a new access, their address
> and status will be announced to you all.

I think the real problem is that the people from Impulse entered this
mailing list hoping to find a collection of users that were going to do
nothing but kiss butt, talk about how amazing Imagine is, and ask a few
Command:
simple questions.

I have not seen one post discussing valid, serious bugs that has been
responded to.  I have not seen what suggestion with regards to Imagine's
limitations responded to.

Don't get me wrong, I want these guys here as much as anyone, and I hope
when they come back they will dicuss the number of post pointing out
where Impulse falls short in Imagine features, bug fixes, support, etc.

Command:
(I am jumping on this because I was sitting here waiting for Mike to
complain about the noise on this list.  I think his definition of noise is
non-positive postings about Imagine or Impulse)

Any opinions are welcomed.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

Command:
--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"<Censored>.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4724 Re: Polygon triangulation
9/2/93 09:18 17/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> I use the Imagine object editor to do all my modeling, and one thing I
> really miss having is an automatic triangulation routine, like the one
> Sculpt had.  Sometimes it takes longer to put all the triangles into an
> outline than it takes to make the outline of the object itself.

Even better, get Impulse to support n-sided polygons and make the entire
outline a polygon.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
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Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"<Censored>.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4725 PC questions
9/2/93 08:11 12/ [e-mail] (Doug Brooks)
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I'm in the process of souping up my pc and was wondering if the PC version of
imagine supports Virtual Memory. Also I was wondering if any other folks have
Imagine on both platforms and are sharing drives between the machines. What
is the best way of doing this (ie network or is there a cheap way???). Thanks


--
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|        Doug Brooks                 |            100% Virtual               |
|        Doug Brooks Animation       |           Kinetic Dissonant           |
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|        [e-mail]     |                                       |
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4726 A500, Imagine and such
9/2/93 10:55 14/ Christopher Ivan Morris <[e-mail]>
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Hello everyone,
        I'm wondering if anyone out there uses DCTV and Imagine with one of
the old, slow-bus A500s or A2000s.  I have an A500 and GVP A530 w/ 4.5M or
fast ram and 0.5M of chip.  I've noticed that HAM animations slow
significantly on this system when an object fills the screen; guess the
bottleneck is the 16-bit, 8MHz bus and chip ram.  I'm contemplating
increasing the chip and fast ram on this system, and getting a DCTV, but
I'm not sure how much of a speed improvement this will make.  (Naturally,
the other option is to save for an AGA or PC system)
        Any impressions out there on DCTV for this system, or DCTV in
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general?  I use View 3.2 to play back my anims.  Many thanks in advance
for your time.

                                                Chris Morris
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4727 technical questions
9/2/93 13:48 31/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
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Mike asked for them so here they are:

HOW MANY BUGS ARE FIXED IN IMAGINE 3.0 ??????????

 - Using Shininess on half transparent objects makes them appear opaque!
 - working star background which doesn't flickers when camera rotates
        slowly

 - Slice, need I say more ?
 - working PC version !!!!!!
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 - fix roughness bug (not working in animations !!!)

SUGGESTIONS for Imagine 3.0:

- macro recording (see Real 3D !!)
- soft shadows ?
- shadows in scanline
- anti-alaising in project data
- action editor with dragable/expandable bars
- time display in action editor
Command:
- non-linear movements/morphings/rotations in action editor
- morphin of n-face objects into m-face objects
- depth of field
- backdrop imagine automagically scaled to project picture / quickrender
        size
- n Special FX entries per object

IMPORTANT: Mike mentioned some support for students. What is this
support ? I bought imagine in Germany and payed the official price !!!

Command:
Hannes
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4728 Polygon triangulation
9/2/93 12:09 10/ [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
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>>and one thing I really miss having is an automatic triangulation routine

I think that even better than this would be four or more sided polygons.
        On high end systems, this is a standard and as long as a poly
        isn't concave, the multiple vertice polygon really saves time.
Otherwise I totally agree... An automatic triangulation routine would
        be nice!
steveZ

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4729 Re: IMPULSE...MORE LOONS FOR NOW
9/2/93 15:15 35/ John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]>
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To: >internet: [e-mail]

David Watters <[e-mail]> writes:
> Even better, get Impulse to support n-sided polygons and make the

Why, it's just a Simple Matter Of Programming to change a
triangle-oriented program to a polygon-based program!

> > Mike feels this would allow me to edit (NOT censor) and therefore
> > minimize the noise factor. He would then feel freer to offer
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> Let me guess... The guy is a total control freak?!

No, he's just a tired businessman who might not enjoy open flames
from warez-collecting college kids and slackers who read the Internet
when they're supposed to be working.

> I think the real problem is that the people from Impulse entered this
> mailing list hoping to find a collection of users that were going to do
> nothing but kiss butt, talk about how amazing Imagine is, and ask a few

Command:
I think this is a direct quote from Mike's first posting.  Thanks for
the welcome, Dave!

> where Impulse falls short in Imagine features, bug fixes, support, etc.

Yeah, but if they fixed all the bugs, then we'd all have no excuse
for turning out that way-cool, creative, doesn't-suck animation that
we promised to post to the list before finals came around!

> David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
Command:
> "Kiernan.  The very name is, to many, the last word in programming. Any kid
>  blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
>                  - Dr. Dobb's Journal, January 1993


Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4730 Powells Internet access
9/2/93 20:18 27/ [e-mail] (Kreg Branden)
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     Finally our Internet deal is up.  You can reach us at;

          [e-mail]

     I haven't tried it myself so I can't say exactly what you will
encounter, but I think it will be a description of how to use our database
and how to set up an account (you DON'T need an account to order books).
     If you call PLEASE mention you heard it on the IML.

     Thanks,
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-- Via DLG Pro v1.0



     Kreg Branden




Command:
 "It is irrational for someone in a monkey suit to walk around claiming
they're not in a monkey suit.  This, in effect, is what the human species
is doing."

          "Relax and enjoy the show."


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4731 Re: IMPULSE...MORE LOONS FOR NOW
9/3/93 05:29 59/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> David Watters <[e-mail]> writes:
> > Even better, get Impulse to support n-sided polygons and make the
>
> Why, it's just a Simple Matter Of Programming to change a
> triangle-oriented program to a polygon-based program!

Then why don't they do it?  It would obviously make a couple of people on
this list extremely happy that are hand triangulating everything.

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> > Let me guess... The guy is a total control freak?!
>
> No, he's just a tired businessman who might not enjoy open flames
> from warez-collecting college kids and slackers who read the Internet
> when they're supposed to be working.

Oooh... Good idea John, flame your customers some more.  If only we could
be as productive and dedicated as you, we might deserve to own your software.
I would, however, argue that not a single person on this list was flamming
Mike or Impulse.  They simply asked questions like "When are you going to
Command:
fix this broken software, this feature has been broken since Imagine 1.0
first shipped!"

> I think this is a direct quote from Mike's first posting.  Thanks for
> the welcome, Dave!

Whatever that means, and your welcome.

> > where Impulse falls short in Imagine features, bug fixes, support, etc.
>
Command:
> Yeah, but if they fixed all the bugs, then we'd all have no excuse
> for turning out that way-cool, creative, doesn't-suck animation that
> we promised to post to the list before finals came around!

And how did we get such a chip on those might shoulders?

>>David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
>> "Kiernan.  The very name is, to many, the last word in programming. Any kid
>>  blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
>>                  - Dr. Dobb's Journal, January 1993
Command:

Editing someone's quote appears to be not only a copyright infringement, but
also opens you up to some legal action.  Other than that it was very funny!
I think I will wait to sue when I am done laughing. :)

> I personally think Pixel 3D RULZ!!!

Wow, I had no idea.

             _     ___
Command:
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4732 Re: IMPULSE...SO LONG FOR NOW
9/2/93 20:13 22/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
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Hi David (David Watters), in <[e-mail]> on Sep 2 you wrote:

: > IN THE MEANTIME, Impulse has decided to temporarily drop off
: > the IML, while I help them set up a more convenient
: > local access method of receiving Internet mail.
: > Mike assures me that he would like to continue reading
: > legitimate Imagine question / answer exchange and they will
: > be back with us shortly. Shortly after mailing this
: > post, I will be removing Impulse from the list, and when
: > I get them ready to roll under a new access, their address
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: > and status will be announced to you all.

Well I have a better Idea then this!

How about we setup a seperate mailing list for questions to Impulse! That
will also be echoed here! In other words if you want to direct your
question to IMPULSE then you would mail to an address but as part of the
distribution from that address will be Impulses Email and the Imagine
Mailing List! That way when someone posts to that list it will get echoed
here but will also be sent over to Mike!
Command:

Personally I would hate to go to Digest form!
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4733 Re: IMPULSE...SO LONG FOR NOW
9/3/93 09:05 60/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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Here are two letters Mike Halvorson sent me.  I hope he doesn't mind if I post
them...but then, who cares.  I'll bite my tongue and just let you read them
for yourself....
----- Begin Included Message -----

Mr. Seltzer
        Ah real questions, and they seem to have been unanswered, and for a
day or two they will remain so.  I dont think that Dave meant to eliminate
any work for us, we just need to deal with your concerns directly not
through compuserve, so we are going to find a better way to communicate.
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        Yes I am still here and am just finding a different portal to get
closer to what you are doing with Imagine.

        Fog is sorta broke and yes its fixed in 3.0

        Also if you have a fax, type out your qestions, fax em to me and I
will fax you back, you can then share all that stuff when whom ever you
would like.,

Command:
        For a while, later

        Gosh I wish I knew how to make those faces at the bottom.
        MIke


----- End Included Message -----
----- Begin Included Message -----

Mr. Setzer,
Command:
        Maybe you are just a bit too sensitive, no one, including myself
minds critical review, we get it all the time, there are many who enjoy
finding some thing to voice their opinions about.  I am sorry that you have
not touched a soft spot, I appreciate you taking the time to tell me and
Impulse how we can improve,  I do think that several people who have called
Impulse have asked some of the dumbest questions you could imagine, and
there is possibly a moment where we slap our foreheads and wonder what the
heck is going on.  Sometimes it is tough to be polite to someone who has
asked a question to something that is actually in the manual.
        You are correct in your asumption that a new manual will help
Command:
eliminate tech problems, we would like that as much as you so we hope to
accomplish that.

        Free bug fixes, now there is a good one.  There is no such thing as
a free bug fix, everthing costs money and we dont do interim programs,
there are no secret programs or special versions, when we have a version
that you can get, we publish this fact in the newsletter which goes to
registered users they can then send in a disk and get a new one, we have
done that several times in the past and it seemed to satisfy everyone.

Command:
        Sorry for sounding like a damn recording but some of these BUGS you
speak of are not bugs it is just a misunderstanding of how things work,
that is our fault for not telling you but there are not that many bugs.

        Never the less, I appreciate your comments and hope that you enjoy
Imagine 3.0. Of course you will let us know.

        Mike

----- End Included Message -----
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4734 Global Brushmaps
9/3/93 09:58 26/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
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I'm trying to do an animation of a room with stone walls, timbered ceiling
and wooden floorboards, with a number of objects and a Cycleman figure.
What I'd like to do is render ONE frame in trace mode, and use it as a
Global brushmap to render the animation in scanline mode.  Some of the
objects have glass or metal parts.

The animation will be rendered with the camera at the same eye-level as the
standing Cycleman figure, with lens settings approximating normal human
vision.  In this case, all objects are scaled to one Imagine unit=1 cm.,
and the default camera size is 320,640,233, located at Z=167 (X and Y vary
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during the animation), and the room is 300 units in radius.

My question is: what is the best placement of and size/lens settings for
the camera for the brushmap shot?  I've tried a 'fisheye' lens setting
from the center of the ceiling, but that doesn't seem to map very well.
Any suggestions, or details on just how Imagine handles the Global Brushmap?

Thanks in advance!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
Command:
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4735 Re: Imagine 3.0
9/2/93 10:39 20/ [e-mail] (Paul Kolenbrander)
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Hello Kiernan,
On 01 SEP 1993 11:05:21 you said regarding Re: Imagine 3.0:

> >Does Imagine 3.0 (Amiga version) come with a 'copy-protection' dongle?
>
> I hope not, besides they wouldn't get anybody's money if it did..

A couple of days ago I got an e-mail from Mike stating that Imagine 3.0
will NOT be dongled. Complete with his point of view on that matter. To
which I totally agree. :-)
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If you reply in the mailinglist, please change the to: address to read
as follows: [e-mail]  :-)

CYa, Paul
---
Paul Kolenbrander  \ InterNet: [e-mail]
Turfveldenstraat 37 \ Fido: 2:2802/123.1 Paul  olenbrander
NL-5632 XH EINDHOVEN | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Voice: [phone] | Timezone:GMT+1 | Fax: [phone]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4736 R2: IMPULSE...SO LONG FOR NOW
9/3/93 12:37 34/ scotte@137.110.2.121 (Scott Ellis)
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Thomas Setzer said on Sep 3 :

> Here are two letters Mike'Halvorson sent me.  I hope he doesn't mind if I post
> them...but then, who cares.  I'll bite my tongue and just let you read them
> for yourself....
> ----- Begin Included Message -----
>
> Mr. Setzer,
>       Maybe you are just a bit too sensitivet no one, including myself
> minds critical review, we get it all the time, there are many who enjoy
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> finding some thing to toice their opinions about.

[majority of the message deleted]

> Never the less, I appreciate your comments and hope that ytu enjoy
> Imagine 3.0. Of course you will let us know.
>
>       Mike
>
> ----- End Included Message -----
Command:

tNow, it is just me, or could this message have been summarized as:

        "I feel obligated to respond to your message, but I am still right, the
users are idiots, and they won't get squat from Impulse."

Sometimes I get really upset that I like Im gine.

   /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Command:
  //  Scott Ellis //  IRC: ScottE // WARNING: This signature warps   //
 //    [e-mail]   //  time and space in its vicinity //
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: /[e-mail])
21400.3.1.4737 ReAlignment
9/3/93 12:46 85/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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A Big Minnesota Welc/me Imagineers!  :-)


I think I miscommunicated my last post.

Let me try to clarify what I said. When I brought up the id/as
of a moderated newsgroup, a digest form, and the likes...
it was merely brainstorming on *my* part as a way to make
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Impu/se less reluctant to get involved in this forum.
They are naturally hesitant to enter a roundtable like this
where they cannot control either the tempo or the tone of
the discussion. It (the group dynamic) _does_ often appear
unnecessarily hostile (though not more than the Internet as
a whole).

Often, as much time and space is spent discussing why someone at
Impulse wah rude on the telephone while offering technical help,
as on the technical question itself.
Command:

This is not be accepthble if we wish to gain the benefit of
having the manufacturer. Whether we WANT or NEED the manufacturer
to be involved is up to the membership. If we don't want
or need Impulse's involvement... forget I said anything.

If we DO prefer them to read ant/or respond to legitimate
technical problems and questions, let's try to be moderately
civil.

Command:
Also, this forumtoffers no capability for Impulse to verify
that the questions are coming from legitimate owners of
Imagine. They may well be offering technical assistance on
their product to someone who is not even a customer.
While we prefer the IML to a Impulse controlled entity
due to the more open and unbiased opinions shared here,
the fact is, the list has a much higher potential for
helping and interest if product manufacturers are both
comfortable and active. Aggressive and hostile exchanges
serve nobody. If you feel the need for that sort of thing,
Command:
I might suggest the newsgroup alt.flame.
As far as Impulse's concern. about NON-Imagine discussion,
I agree, they will need to learn the exercise of the
delete key for information they don't care to read...
just like all the rest of us. It tends to be simply a
byproduct of a mailing list.

As a group with many profrssional software producers and artists
also concerned with copyright protection, I agree that
the list should be kept to it's highest ethical standards.
Command:
I have stated several times on this list the importance of
registering your copy of AN  software with the manufacturer.
If you are uncertain of the status of your registration,
take the time to GET it registered. Call Impulse or Apex or
Syndesis or Axiom or ASDG or BlackBelt or Art Machine or
whomever for instructions on your specific package.

Impulse's presence here is an unusual act. Not many companies
are represented directly online by the president.
Eppecially on a Mailing List they cannot "control".
Command:
Particularly in a forum that offers no incentive other than
verbal abuse and insulting behaviour. No company would
allow themselves to be that kind of target. Nor should they.


In short,ac'mon folks!

Give 'em a chance when they get back online to respond to your
questions. It's not like they HAVE to be here. at's not like
treating someone online with the same respect you'd have
Command:
for someone on the street is gonna hurt you. "Acting civil"
is not "kissing someone's rear-end".

If you want to demonstrate your razor sharp wits and your
frustration  ith their business methods, do it in private mail
or do it with your checkbook when Imagine 3.0 comes out.


____            ____
 |  \  /\\    //     Dave Wickard  [phone]  To Subscribe or Unsubscribe
Command:
 |   )/__\\  //--    [e-mail]     to the Imagine Mailing List,
_|__//    \\//___    [e-mail]    send mail with "subscribe" or
 ________________    [e-mail]       "unsubscribe" in subject line to:
/_______________/    [e-mail]   [e-mail]

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.../Maili_g Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4738 Re: IMPULSE...MORE LOONS FOR NOW
9/3/93 12:55 23/ [e-mail]@email.sp.paramax.com
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On Fri, 3 Sep 1993, David Watters wrote:

>
> > David Watters <[e-mail]> writes:,
> > > Even better, get Impulse to support n-sided polygons and make the
> >
> > Why, it's just a Simple Matter Of Programmi,g to change a
> > triangle-oriented program to a polygon-based program!
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>
> Then why don't they do it?  It would obviously,make a couple of people on
> this list extremely happy that are hand triangulating everything.

        (Blah, blah, blah ,eleted...)

        I asked them the same question the last time I went and visited
thier shop.  The reply?  "That would tak, a TOTALLY new renderer".


Command:
        Well?


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail,to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4739 Triangle vs Polygon-based
9/3/93 15:01 47/ Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]>
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> On Fri,c3 Sep 1993, David Watters wrote:
>
> >
> > > David Watters <[e-mail]> writes:
> > > > Even better, get Impulse co support n-sided polygons and make the
> > >
> > > Why, it's just a Simple Matter Of Programming to change a
> > > trianglc-oriented program to a polygon-based program!
> >
> > Then why don't they do it?  It would obviously make a couple of people on
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Comm nd:
> > this list extremely happy that are hand triangulating everything.
>
>       (Blah, blah, blah deleted...)
>
>       I asked them the same question the last time I went and visited
> thier shop.  The reply?  "That would take a TOTALLY new renderer".
>
>       Well?
>
I thought the above "Simple Matter Of Programming" was intended to be
Command:
sarcasm,  r at least not serious. (IMHO)

It seems to me that one of the most fundamental facts of Imagine is
that it is triangle-base .  I can't 'imagine' that it will ever be
anything but that.  To change it to be polygonally-based, I would think
Impulse would have to start from scratch, as almost everything in
Imagine would be affected.  Indeed, I believe and respect Impulse's
reply "That would take a TOTALLY new renderer".

IMHO, IMHO, IMHO  asking Impulse to change Imagine to be polygon-based is
Commald:
unreasonable, IMHO.  Well, sure, it might be nice, but lets not demand a
miracle. :-)

Besides which, I seem to rememblr a discussion of the advantages of
triangle-based renderers, somewhen here, I think.  Anybody remember
that or have some good pro/con points?

Now, I think an 'auto-facing' feature is a different matter, and
sure would be a nice feature.  Perhaps one could be written using
Glenn Lewis's  TTDDDLib (or whatever its called now) as a stopgap measure.
Command:


           e __
\\ /\\ /\\ //_    Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan]
 \/--\// \//__    [e-mail]         McDonnell Douglas-Houston
     //           Hobby:  "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors"
                  GodlyGraphics mailing list: [e-mail]
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4740 Re: Triangle vs Polygon-based
9/3/93 15:54 16/ [e-mail] (Glenn M. Lewis - ICD ~)
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>>>>> On Fri, 3 Sep 93 17:01:40 CDT, Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]> said:

Wayne> Now, I think an 'auto-facing' feature is a different matter, and
Wayne> sure would be a nice feature.  Perhaps one could be written using
Wayne> Glenn Lewis's TTDDDLib (or whatever its called now) as a stopgap
Wayne> measure.

        Hehehe... Yeah, I changed the name when I kept have to say
"TTDDDLIB" over the phone... sounded like I had a severe speech
impediment.  :-)  It is T3DLIB.  (Lastest release, R39).
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        Yeah, it would be pretty straight-forward to do auto-facing, as
long as one is up to writing the program.

                                                        -- Glenn

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4741 Bug list?
9/3/93 16:53 4/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
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Is there a list of docu ent Imagine 2.0 bugs floating around somewhere?

Jason K.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: imag [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4742 Bug List
9/3/93 16:54 6/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
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I meant:

Is the  re a docu ented list of Imagine 2.0 bugs floating around somewhere?

Jason K.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mai  to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4743 Heat vs. Light
9/3/93 18:32 11/ [e-mail]
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  I've only subscribed to t e ML for a few weeks now, but it sure seems to
generate more heat than light.  I, for one, would appreciate more technical
discussion and less ego-defense motivated posts.

  To that end:  I have PC Imagine, and I can not get the GROW special effect
to leave my colors alone.  I tried the simplest possible case (one colored
triangular face growing along a two point, straight path), and the side of
the extruded triangular beam was a different color that the face.  Any hints?

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                                           /// Mike ///
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail] max.com)
21400.3.1.4744 Re: Ianm player
9/3/93 22:54 23/ Johan Andersson <[e-mail]>
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>Can anyone illuminate me on why I can't seem to get the @!#$%^&* PLAYIANM
>program to work? I used the correct spacing, and have the program in my C dir
>as directed, with the anim in my FP subdir. When I type PLAYIANM VIPER.ANM,
>all I get is a requester saying "Can't open script file viper.anm/script; is
>there something missing, or am I missing something? I'll be getting Steve
>Worley's book RSN, and am muddled a bit about the inability to play anim's.
>The manual states nothing about scripts, save those in the action editor, and
>even those are autogenerated by mouse selection(s) anyway. Any help would be
>greatly appreciated, as a neophyte to Imagine (this is my first 3-D program)
>I'd like to learn how to use it better, and I feel that the manual barely
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>scratches the surface in appropriate use of the program and its utilities.
>Thanks again for listening to the same old song and dance, God Bless, BCNU!
                                                           Michel J. Brown

Howdy..

Do not use Playanim.....

If you want a really good anim-player, use ViewTek which
support the superior anim7-format, it's hell of lot faster
Command:
than anim5.

   y    / Johan
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.y745 PlayIanm
9/3/93 14:45 24/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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Well, Imagineers, I tried *ALL* of the suggestions, and I *still* get the
same results >:| This animation is a demo I got from a friend of mine showing
how a flight path generated in Flight Recorder was ported to Imagine, using
an object created in Imagine with a background done using Vista Pro (the
Grand Canyon). According to all the docs, this *should* work, but I seem to
be missing something. Using the cli, and giving the complete path, I don't
seem to be getting *ANYWHERE*! I tried Lesk's suggestion to no avail, as well
as Dave's and Doug's - no go :-/ Anybody have any more suggestions as to what
I should try next? I even tried to setup a project to incorporate the anim,
but that also gave the same rude requester. I dunno, seems like every step I
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take requires two steps (or more) backwards. God Bless, and I'll BCNU!

Warm regards,

Michel



                                  ||   Chiropractor on a comission from GOD
--    '                         __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
Command:
[e-mail] __  _  are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4746 PoBygon triangulation
9/2/93 12:09 61/ [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
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>>and one thing I really miss having is an automatic triangulatiod routine
>I think that even better than this would be four or more sided polygons.
>   On high end systems, this is a standard and as long as a poly
>   isn't concave, the multiple vertice polygon really saves time.
>Otherwise I totally agree... An automatic triangulation routine would
>   be nice!

I work with Lightwave, but I greatly respect Imagine completeness and nifty
features, like FX and cycles, but I gotta say it has to be greatly enhanced
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in this 3.0 version to overcome last Lightwave release. Lightwave's speed
is now impossible to compare to Imagine in a 040.
For now, I have to say triangles have disadvantages *and* advantages. You
that never played seriously with LW2 don't know what a plague are the so
called degenerate and non-planar polygons. It's hard to detect and even har-
der to correct, you normally end up having to triangulate the damn thing. And,
IMHO, triangles are beautier and smoother when rendered. Not having to deal
with that darn Lightwave normals is also a great advantage of Imagine.
I think the best option was to keep internally the triangles, so avoiding po-
lygons problem, but since the triangles screen refresh is astoundingly pain-
Command:
full, You could have "Polydraw Pick" and "Polydraw All" options, in Quickdraw
fashion, that would automatically detect every n triangles that share an edge
and are planar to be represented by a single polygon. That's what 3Dorks with quadrangles.
The "n" triangles option would allow us to see a lot of triangles as just one
polygon, also allowing ushat'd be the perfect solution, IMHO.
The biggest disavantage of Imagine in relation to Lightwave, though, is its
stage editor. For Christ sake, having to move objects in 3 views when all we
Command:
wanted is real-time positioning in *one* view, the csition an object just a bit out of the camera view.
Caligari is the best example of it. Another necessary additions would be a(and, of course, perspective view moving by the mouse!). The editor
should also try to redraw the object in real-time, if that's possible, as
in Caligari, instead of always turning it into a box, as in Lightwave.
Other suggestions I have was already mad and automatic actor last frame number increasing when
Command:
the last frame number is increased. (In fact, I think an object should al-
ways exist during an animation, being its disappearing an effect, like in
Lightwave.)
As to the object editor, of solid objec-
ts and spline objects. Something very useful would be solid viewing in the
tri-views either. It'd be easier to rotating
the object in the z axis and editing the front view, instead of hiding points
every time. (I know, at least Imagine ect editor, what really annoys me is the initializing process!
Command:
We should have another way to speed it up than movingl the brushmaps
to there. Otherwise, having to load the same brushmap hundreds of times and
cleaning its memory up its painstahuh?
I think that's the most important. But much more could be added, mainly inver-
se kinnematics and physical support (at least physical contact, to avoid over-
lapping objects).

Command:
Breno A. Silva ([e-mail])
Command:

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21400.3.1.4747 Re: Heat vs. Light
9/4/93 10:55 30/ [e-mail].  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
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-----


>
>  To that end:  I have PC Imagine, and I can not get the GROW spealong a two point, straight path), and the side of
>the extruded triangular beam was a different color that the face.  Any hint                   /// Mike ///
>
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>
        Well it sounds like it's not working.  You could try to do a
plain morph which should solve the problem.  This m segments.  Save this new object.  Using
the original flat object once more, extrude just string to a small distance
(say 1), bject which will look the same as a grow (since both objects have the same
number of points etc....).

        Hope this help  [e-mail], CWRU Software Engineer/Graphics Artist
 *                   "And on the 7th day G-d Ray Traced..."
 */
Com10:57 26/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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First of all, this animation sounds interesting, could you'upload it to
an FTP site so I t Recorder with Imagine and Vista, and I'd love to see what your
friend did.

Secondly, PlayI'NM is only for viewing __Imagin
Most likely, it's a standard IFF ANIM - try View3.6 or Viewtek.

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You can tell if it's in Ima'ine format if it's a bunch of ss, one for every frame, inside a directory called 'anim'.

If instead, it's just one big file,'then it's got to be IFF ANIM.
he says "Imagine", then you're on the right track, but most likely
you will have to setup an Imagine project with the exact same file names
and paths as he has on his machine.  Good luck, it aint pretty, that's
Command:
why I never use Imagine format for anims.  It's not a bad format, but it
is much harder to export and distribute.

(By the w
y, what's a BCNU? ;)
--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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21400.3.1.4749 Re: PlayIanm
9/4/93 12:57 14/ [e-mail]@email.sp.p1%)
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 b      PlayIanm is for anims crec0003 etc.  To the best of my knowledge it
will NOT play iff anims.


                I am speeking here of PlayIanm (comes w/Imagine), NOT Palyanim.


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21400.3.1.4750 GROW Effect
9/4/93 17:36 20/ [e-mail]
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>> You could try to do a plain morph which should solve the problem.  This
 >> may be the only way.

  *Sigh*

  Unfortunately, my =original= intent was to have a growing rainbow (looked
real pretty as a fog objeced one
away from the colors on the ends, with black supplying the extra color.

  I guess I'll chalk it up a another Imaginensfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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  Imagine seems to produce TGA-24 files with some kind of funkiness in the
headers that DTA does not like.  I run them through PICLAB, which
fm at one time.

                                           /// Mike ///

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21400.3.1.4751 Re: PlayIanm
9/4/93 19:28 16/ [e-mail]
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Jeff Walkup writes:
> Ask your friend if he chose "Imagine" or "ANIM" under "File Format" in
> the Project etrack, but most likely
> you will have to setup an Imagine project with the exact same file names
> and paths as he has on his machine.  Good luck, it aint pretty, that's
> why I never use Imagine format for anims.  It's not a bad format, but it
> is mort and distribute.

I've got playianm in my c: drawer, and all I ever do is type "playianm
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work:spam.imp/flyingspam.pix/ani every
time.  If I tossed playianm into the subproject's anim drawer, I
wouldn't even need the path.  Granted, this isn't very
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4752 visible light beams (dreaded 'fog bug'??)di <[e-mail]>
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I have to spotlights in a scene that look fine on their own, but
whout.

each light is a cone as a light source with a thin fog setting.

Is this the fog bug I've heard of but never encountertter way to make a visible beam o' light.

                    | Hey Beavis. Essence-II's Crumpled texture
steve lombardi   ..
9/5/93 10:37 14/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
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You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward'on a recent project I discovered a cheap method to produce a fog like
effect on planes.
Create a ground object.
Add radialisWidth say 5000 or more
with the effect turned off for color and reflectence. Put
filter numbers to 255,255,255.
Now render an edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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Enjoy
He (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4754 Re: GROW Effect
9/5/93 21:47 12/ Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
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>   Imagine seems to produce TGA-24 files with sion to do a mess of them at one time.

For what its worth...
As long as I render at 640 x 480 and below, Image Alchemy does a good job
of converting the TGS-24's to many formats on the PC.

Cliff Lee
[e-mail]
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21400.3.1.4755 Re: PlayIanm
9/6/93 08:09 42/ ro 1 to 10 of 42 (23%)
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On Sep 4, 10:57am, Jeff Walkup wrote:
> Subject: Re: PlayIanm
>
>
> (By the way, what's a BCNU? ;)

Have you ever seen The Prisonner ? (I'm no.). The hero lives in a
village, the Village, and he's prisonner. He's called Nr. 6. When people see
each other, they say : "Bne forward back add_article
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In french, they say "Boejour chez vous" that means "Good morning at home", which
is quite a strange way to say hello, as BCNU is strange in english, I suppose.

Sorry to take the bandwidth.
> --
> Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
> >
>-- End of excerpt from Jeff

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21400.3.1.4756 Re: ReAlignment
9/6/93 09:49 53- [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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Dave(and whoever else cares),
  Quick note:  THIS IS NOT A FLAME.  My intentions are the same as
yours'  I want Impulse on this list and would hate to see them
leave due to disrespect from readers.  I meant no disrespect in
my two posts directed toward Impulse.  I add the smiley faces
because it seems to keep tempers down when you are discusing
"sensitive" issues:)

> Often, as much time and space is spent discussing why someone at
> Impulse was rude on the telephone while iffering technical help,
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> as ion itself.
>
> This is not be acceptable if we wish to gain the benefit of
> having the manifacturer.

I disagree.  I thin from this
list as we the users of Imagine do.  If we can get them to provide
better serviceiby voicing our opinions, then Ind:
> If we DO prefer them to read and/or respond to legitimate
> technical problems and questions, let's try to be moderatel was by no means a flame.  I really want answers to those
questions, and I'm still waiting for them.  I find it silly
that I s
>
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> Also, this forum offers no capability for Impulse to verify
> that the quettions are coming from legitimatis not even a customer.

Agreed.  I suggest that anyone with a pirate copy think
twice abouttposting to this list.

> Agdy. If you feel the need for that sort of thing,
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> I might suggest the newsgroup alttflame.

I hope this isn't intthe past and will probably flame again, but like I said,
NO FLAME INTENDED on my last posts to tmpulse.


Tom Setzer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3t1.4757 List of suggestions and s 1 to 10 of 46 (21%)
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text ('help page' for of suggestions and a list of
bugs together for Imagine 2.0.

We could enter a known bug and rhen forward the letter again.
t. He also sees what was
added before and therefore double ideas are prevented.

How about strrting like this

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SUGGESTIONr FOR FURTHER IMAGINE UPDATES
No. Member      Description

1   Hannes      Draggable bars in action editor

=============r================================================

BUG REPORTS FOR IMAGINE V2.0                    DATE: 6.9.1993
-----------r--------------------------------------------------
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No. Member      Description

1   Hanes       Slice function works only in 50% of all cases (at best)

==============================================================


Emails for listed rembers:

Hannes hecknerh@infoI think Mike gets what he is looking for: pure facts and
technical questions. I know that forwared emails can come across
but and maybe Dave could
sychronize (or update) every week so that only one up-to-date
letter is rrnning through.
Ok what are youn
just delete this text and begin forwarding (or was it bouncing ?)
this message by filling it with your ideas and bug-reportsbe of great
help for both Impulse and us the members of the IML !

Keep in touch
Hannes

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4758 Starz...
9/6/93 17:45 20/ "J_GEORGE" <[e-mail]>
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For those that had asked about generating star fields awhile back, if you're
looking t  make a still backdrop there is a PPM utility that performs this
well. It's called 'ppmforge' and algorithmically generates stars fields,
planets, cloud scapes, and glacial landmasses. It's part of the PBMPlus
Image Conversion package available for Amiga, MS-DOS, Mac, and probably
several other platforms. PPMFORGE can be found in the file 'ppmbin1.lzh'
(for Amiga users) in the gfx/pbm directory at any aminet site.

You'll also need the manual file, available in 'manuals.lzh' in the same
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directory.

The file is initially saved in ppm (portable pixmap file format) and can
then be converted to ILBM (or whatever) using the appropriate program.

                                                The Imaginaut,

                                                        I\/Iax Ixt)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4759 Re: List of suggestions and errors ?
 Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
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move toeditor

Not only draggable but cut&paste both within the same actor and across
to other actors.  For instance, copying the posn/algn info from one
object to another (and the CAMERA).  Of course the ability to time-scale
motions/whole animations via dragging is needed.
Also file-reqs for re/assigning objects in Action, as well as a list of
objects/paths in the scene which you can click on to assign tracking
(rather than having to find and type in the name exactly).

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Also the ability to change light colors/types from the Stage, although I
think the promised "pop-up info in Stage" feature will handle that... I
_hope_ anyway.

Of course I have many more suggestions, some of which have already been
covered here, but I have a feeling it's a little too late to ask for
things in 3.0, seeing as how release is planned for next month.
(NOT a complaint... I can't wait to get 3.0, the sooner the better!)

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Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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21400.3.1.4760 Re: Triangle vs(55%)
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> Now, I think an 'auto-facing' feature is a different matter, and
> sure would be a nice feature.

I suggested the auto-facing feature before Imagine 2.0 came out.  Hopefully
it'll make it into 3.0 since a lot of people here seem to think it's a good
idea, but I'm not going to hold

> Perhaps one could be written using Glenn Lewis's TTDDDLib (or whatever
> its called now) as a stopgap measure.

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If Imagine had AREXX, then that would probably be a good idea, but saving
the object running it through a utility and reading it back in again is a
bit awkward.  Besides the Lewis library, there's a lot of code floatinet to do this sort of thing. ...It's come up in just the last
week in comp.graphics.*, in fact.   Pretty amazing Impulse still hasn't put
that feature in, eh?

Steve
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21400.3.1.4761 Re: Unsubscribe
9/7/93 07:17 1/ =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole-Ronny_=D8deg=E5rd?= <[e-mail]>
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21400.3.1.4762 Re: +Postage Due+Re: +Postage Due+Re: Polygon triangulation
9/7/93 08:45 77/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> Dave,
>       Two problems, first is that we are truly dedicated to the hobby
> user, and have not indeed payed as much attention to the higher end of the
> market as it appears that you would like us to.  Sorry.

I understand.

>       The other thing is this I HATE RAY TRACING and would love to go
> faster, so we have indeed added more power to the scanline system such as
> shadows and better refelect mapping.
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Sounds great!  I hope you continue in this direction.

>       Last thing, buy an SGI box they are cheap now, INDY for about
> 12,000 and soon Imagine will be on it and it is VERY FFFFAST.

We have certainly looked at the SGI platform, but the software costs alone
are very prohibitive.  The future seems to hold a lot for the various Amiga
renderers to show up an the SGI (Lightwave, Real3D, Imagine all seem to be
headed that way), but even the Indy costs a bit more than people realize.
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Add some memory and some disk to that thing, and that revolutionary price
disapears fast.

Was is extremely more attractive to us is the possibilities that The Screamer
holds.  With 4 R4400's to the Indy's 1, it presents itself as a better bang
for the buck render box.

It would be very benefitial for Impulse to try and support The Screamer as
an external render engine.

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>       THe only thing that bothers me about your comment regarding speed,
> I have LW and a toaster and for the life of me Imagine is much faster than
> light wave, call me and lets find out what you are doing wrong so that you
> can get the speed that Imagine has, this is not meant as a competitive
> thing, Imagine is faster honest.

There were a number of factors which caused us to switch from Imagine to
Lightwave.  The lack of a full featured scanline render was one of the main
factors.  Your comments that Impulse is working to improve the scanline
render is very promising and I will be going back and having another look
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at Imagine this week.  We have atleast one project that is set up in both
packages and I will look at some performance test also.
I think one of the other reasons we switched was the lack of an animation
system that supported non-linear keyframing.
As I recall, Imagine is either linear position keyframming (I realize that
velocity supports ease in and out) or nonlinear path based.  Although editing
the paths could give us the nonlinear motion we wanted, I don't believe we
could control the number of frames for each section of the path.
This is from a few years ago, but I believe this was the problem we were
having.
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Any information on how we should have been doing things would be appriciated.

>       I will wait for your call.
>       Mike

I appriciate that, though I would rather keep in touch this way as much as
possible.  I have grown weary of trying to get through to various businesses.
I sat on hold with Adaptec (PC SCSI controllers) for 1.25 hours only to get
through to the wrong tech support group (OS2 rather than Novell) and then
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transfered to the correct one... at the end of the line again! ARGH!

I am very appriciative of you help and concerns.  You are not nea-'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-
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--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letterPeriod!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993

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..a.gov (Tom Smith)
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>Can anyone illuminate me on why I can't seem to get the @!#$%^&* PLAYIANM
>program to work? I used the correct spacing, and rected, with the anim in my FP subdir. When I type PLAYIANM VIPER.ANM,
>all I get is a requester saying "Can't open script fileeted]
>                                                Michel J. Brown

I fought with this too. Go into your the .pix directory where your animation
is. There will be an anim directory there after you've created your animation.
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In the .pix directory all there is to it, and you don't have to have imagine running in the
background.



>If yoo want a really good anim-player
This is true, anim7 is great! I have one problem with it though... How do I
build overscan DCTV animations. I can do standard size animations, but not
overscan. BTW, I use AAC to build the animation.

                                                 h
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21400.3.1.4764 [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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      and is being forwarded to the list by me. Please be certain when replying
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      [e-mail]
      If not, be certain to either change the address, or at least Cc: a copy
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I apologize to Impulse if I made them mad.. I like the program,
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it is really fast!! I like the textures, image-mappin- effects,
and all the features!! There are things that can be improved,
and I will mention those in the future that do need to be improved..
I would like to congradulate you on making Imagine 3.0.. Oh ya,
in computer graphics world (I think the september edition)
showed some graphics done with Imagine 2.0 and Amiga's..
In fact the cover's topic was something like "Is it time to
take another look at the Amiga." They also covered (just caught a glimpse)
I think Syndesis' CD-ROM full of objects..

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Kiernan
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4765 Re:Triangle vs Polygon-based
9/7/93 11:07 26/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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From: Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: [e-mail]
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 18:54:12 -0600 (MDT)
In-Reply-To: .no.id> from "[e-mail]" at Sep 3, 93 04:14:07 pm
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>IMHO, IMHO, IMHO  .sking Impulse to change Imagine to be polygon-based is
>unreasonable, IMHO.  Well, sure, it might be nice, but lets not demand a
>miracle. :-)
>
>Besides which, I seem to remember a discussion of the advantages of
>triangle-based renderers, somewhen here, I think.  Anybody remember
>that or have some good pro/con points?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but is the original mailer wan ing a
Command:
patch (bezier/spline) based modeler with a triangle-based renderer,
or is he wanting a complete patch based modeler and rendering program..
I don't know if a patch based renderer is possible without breaking
the patches down into triangles (since triangles are the simplest
3D surface, and would therefore be easier to render)..

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4766 Re:Triangle vs. Polygon
9/7/93 11:i6 38/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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      and is beinc forwarded to the list by me. Please be certain when replying
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      If not, be certain to either change the address, or at least Cc: a copy
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From: Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 18:45:49 -0600 (MDT)
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>> > Why, it's just anSimple Matter Of Programming to change a
>> > triangle-oriented program to a polygon-based program!
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>>
>> Then wny don't they do it?  It would obviously make a couple of people on
>> this list extremely happy that are hand triangulating everything.
>
>       (Blah, blah, blah deleted...)
>
>       I asked them the same question the last time I went and visitev
>thier shop.  The reply?  "That would take a TOTALLY new renderer".

Ok, is there any proof?? I wouldn't take thier word.. v would ask for
Command:
proon the rendering stage (on all rendering
programs) polygon (patches) are broken up into trianglvs and rendered,
all they would really need to do is modify the object modeling part,
make something to convert polygons into triangle based objects (there ability to implement this feature??
It is easy to say "Can't".

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagineu are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
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      [e-mail]
      If not, be certain to either change the address, or at least Cc: a copy
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>to be involved is up to the me
>or need Impulse's involvement... forget I said anything.
Command:

We want Impulse's invol
ment (I mean I do)...
I just don't want to hear any BS.. I mean, hype!!!

>While we prefer the IML to a Impulse controlled
ntity
>due to the more open an about anything that is
quasy-non-imagine or partially-imagine but worth mentioning, I get flamed.
Believe me, there is a bias..  It is a imagine list, but sometimes
Command:
it is good to be critical about the software and to mention some
temporary alternatives (until Impulse improves something).. I'd
like to see more general discussions and conversations about the art of ray-tracing rather than just Imagine. (Don't flame me, I like to use
Imagine, but I'm not a big super-biased fan of the proand I'm not going to try to sell thier product for them..)

>the fact is, the list has a much higher potential for
>helpingle and active. Aggressive and hostile exchanges
Command:
>serve nobody. If you feel the need for that sort of thing,

That uct
manufacturers (or programmers with some knowledge in business and software
engineering).. fome things are not worth mentioning, and I admit there is a
lot of  things that I have talked about that I have later regret.
I will try to hold back by negative feelings, but I will continue to
be critical about certain things. If you are not critical, then will
the manufacturernufacturer should treat the
Command:
users (& owners) of thier software as the boss's..

at is good to be appreciative buof improvements
that are feasible (in the users opinion)..

>I might suggest the newsgroup alt.flame.

It is not Imagine smand:
>just like all the rest of us. It tends to be simply a
>byproduct of a mailing list.
l
That depends on what you like  hate me, some disagree and agree with me.. some really like to read
my posts.. I mean, it is l
That depends on what you like  hate me, some disagree and agree with me.. some really like to read
my posts.. I mean, it is lto you to delete messages frohip them because of that..
It is up to them to visit this group.. I know they have an
interest il thier software, but they will have to expect
to read mail from some users (like me) who have critical thoughts
about thier software..


Dave... don'tling Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4768 Re:Triangle vs. Polygsoftware..


Dave... don'tling Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4768 Re:Triangle vs. Polygs
9/7/93 13:52 27/ srp@gcx1.e reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to re take a TOTALLY new renderer".
>
> Ok, is there any proof?? I wouldn't take thier word.. I would )sk for
> proof.. I've beenll they would really need to do is modify the object modeling part,
> make something to convert po)ygons into triangle based oway to skin a algorithm). So, is there any specific,
> jargonless explanation for this inability to implement this feature??
-
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> It is easy to say "Can't".

Geesh.  They don't nee  to provide any proof to an I wrote one myself not to long ago).  Doing
a "simple" modification to change the object modeling part probably isn't
simple robably optimized for using triangles
in the object editor (and renderer) already.

Command:
Alp I suggested was that polygly busted
up into triangles.  That wouldn't cause major changes to the way the object
editor handles things now, and it wouldn't take any changes in the renderer.
I'd rather see them add a nice feature like this then get into major changes
into whatrelease.

Steve
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4769 Re: List of suggestions and errors ?
9/7/93 16:46 6/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
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Yes!!! File requesters:
  I
 the action editor
     thething, anything, is better than the object load/save file req.

Andrew.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4770 Re: Triangle vs Polygon-based
9/7/93 16:49
9/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
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Wouldn't it be nice if some of the Imagine tools by Glenn Lewis, or Vertex
were available on the PC?


hint, hint.

I'd pay for them, really.

Andrew.

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il.sp.paramax.com)
21400.3.1.4771 Re: List of suggestions and errors ?
9/7/93 20:40 23/ Peter Garza <[e-mail]>
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>
>
p SUGGESTIONS FOR FURTHER IMAGINE UPDATES       DATE: 6.9.1993
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> No. Member    Description
>
> 1   Hannes    Draggable bars in action editor
>

How about #2, an explode where it does't just break the object down to
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all the triangles, but could break it down into pieces, with a defineable
minimum and maxium numbere of triangles per piece, and random seed.
Just thinking that all objects exploding into triangles is a little
unrealistic.

>
> Keep in touch
> Hannes
>
>
Command:

Peter Garza
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4772 Re: Realignment
9/7/93 20:46 27/lSteve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
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> From: Kiernan Holland <[e-mail]>
>
> That's a laugh... Anytime I talk about anything that is
> quasy-non-imagine or partially-imagine but worth mentioning, I get flamed.
> Believe me, there is a bias..  It is a imagine list, but sometimes
> it is good to be critical about the software and to mention some
> temporary alternatives (until Impulse improves something).. I'd
> like to see more general discussions and conversations about the art
> of ray-tracing rather than just Imagine. (Don't flame me, I like to use
> Imagine, but I'm not a big super-biased fan of the programmers behind
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> the program... and I'm not going to try to sell thier product for them..)

A suggestion for kiernan and others who wish to address a wider range
of graphicall related subjects: comp.ss.amiga.graphics has about 50
posts daily covering all renderers/tracers/add-ons etc... I enjoy
stopping in there a few times a week for general graphics info. This
mail list is for Imagine related topics. yes, occasionally a comparison
between Interchanges DXF converter with Pixel 3D's is quite valid here.
Constructive criticism of Imagine is not only appropriate here, but
with Impulses new found presence here I think it is VITAL. Sorry to waste
Command:
everone's time and BW with this, but I do think it would be cool if the IML
were reserved for Imagine and closel related discussions while the C.S.A.
hierarchy handles the broader bases of conversation it was intended.

                    | Hey Beavis. Essence-II's Crumpled texture
steve lombardi      | really KICKS ASS.    Mhhh huh. Yea. And those space
[e-mail] | textures don't suck either. Huh.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4773 BONES! BONES! BONES!!
9/7/93 21:06 23/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
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WARNING: the text you are about to read contains very few 'y'
characters. My keboard is fucked!

This ma be old news to ou lightwave users, but the bones feature
reall kicks ass. I was at the local dealers today while he configured
a toaster for a client and got to pla with LW a bit. In five minutes
and with a bit of coaching from the dealer, I loaded the stock
dinasaur object (same as is included with imagine 2.0) added a bone
to each leg and the neck as well as a spineset a keframe at frame 1,
moved to frame 10, rotated the neck and spine bones and rendered a wireframe
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preview. The dino skin was cyber-magically contorted as a real flesh surface
would be. It looked great and couldn't be easier. soooo.....

Impulse- I know imagine 3.0 is real close now, and the bones feature is
mentioned in the newsletter. Will it Be this Eas in Imagine. Please,
I'm drooling. An additional info ou could post to this list about the
Bones feature would be oh so appreciated. The thought of Imagines
new brush tacking used in conjunction with this bones stuff is
almost too much to contemplate. Please feed me.

Command:
                    | Hey Beavis. Essence-II's Crumpled texture
steve lombardi      | really KICKS ASS.    Mhhh huh. Yea. And those space
[e-mail] | textures don't suck either. Huh.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (masl to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4774 Re: Realignment
9/8/93 00:50 17/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Exactamundo  This Imagine list is for discussing __Imagine__, other
stuff should be left for news.  I can't understand why that's not
obvious to some...

If Mike @ Impulse is really concerned about possibly giving support to
non-owners, perhaps we could all putvour "Impulse customer numbers" in
our .sigs.  It wouldn't be too hard for them to do a quick check if they
felt the need.  Just a thought.  I have and would appreciate the
presence of Impulse in this forum, and I think we all should do whatever
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is ne
cesary to support that as a reality.  'Nuff said.

By the way Steve, here's a bunch of y's, please cut&paste as needed ;)
yy
yyyyyyy  Let me know if you need more! ;^)

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
C
mmand:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4775 PlayIanm

/8/93 00:20 27/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
Lines 1 to 10 of 27 (37%)
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move to the next article, and 'don: Johan Andersson <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Ianm player

>Howdy.o
>
G'day yerself!
>
>If you want a really good anim-player, use ViewTek which
>support the superior anim7-format, it's helo of lot faster
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>than anim5.
>
Not that *I've* noticed (using Main Actor), although I have seen the A7
files grow to 20-25%obigger than the equivalent A5 file! Both give me 60
fps, and yet I prefer to keep the size as small as possible, so I'll stick
with A5 until something better comes along. Thanks for your input, BCNU!
>
>       / Johan
>
Michel
Command:

                                 ||   Chiropractor on a comission from GOD
--                              __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
[e-mail] __  _  are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
                               less, and BCNU!
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21400.3.1.4776 PlayIanm
9/8/93 00:18 27/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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From: <[e-mail]>
To: "Michel J. Brown" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: PlayIanm



>       PlayIanm is for anims created by ImaginT in a rame-by-frame
>format, i.e. pic0001 pic0002 pic0003 etc.  To the best of my knowledge it
>will NOT play iff anims.
>T
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GlTd that *somebody* knows this! It does'nt even mention this in the
manual, anywhere! It really is'nt very intuitive, is it?
>
>               I am speeking here of PlayIanm (comes w/Imagine), NOT
Palyanim.
>
Huh? Did I miss something *again*?
>
>
    Cyrus J. Kalbrener

Command:

                                  ||   Chiropractor on a comission from GOD
--
                    __||__  mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                        med to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!
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ns
                        med to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!
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nad article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4777 PlayIanm
9/8/93 00:17 n3/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
To: [e-mail] (Imagine Mailtng List)
Subject: Re: PlayIanm


>First of all, this animation sounds interesting, could you upload it to
>an FTP site so t could check it out?  I'm doing something similar -
>Flight Recorder with Imagine and Vista, and I'd love to see what your
>friend did.
>
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Sure, if my SA will allow for that. All I need is the path to ping to ;^)
>
>Secondly, PlayIANM is only for virwing __Imagine__ format aations.
>If what you have is not in Imagine format, it won't work.
>Most likely, it's a standard IFF ANIM - try View3.6 or Vieen *nice* if the docs stated that little fact! I have
used both VTek, and MainActor, and I get no speed differences between
An in Imagine format if it's a bunch of separate
>files, one for every frame, inside a directory called 'anim'.
>
Nope, Anim-5 re used :[
>
>If instead, it's just one big file, then it's got to be IFF ANIM.
>
*NOW* I find out :-/
>
Command:
>Ask your friend if he chose "Imagine" or "ANIM" under "File Format" in
>the Project editor "Rendering Subp oject" requestor.
>If hehen you're on the right track, but most likely
>you will have to setup an Imagine project with the exact same file names
>and e.  Good luck, it aint pretty, that's
>why I never use Imagine format for anims.  It's not a bad format, but it
>is much harder to export and distribute.
>
I'd think that Anim-5 would produce smaller files, not so?
>
Commanda
>(By the way, what's a BCNU? ;)
>
Uhhh, try sounding it out, maybe that'll help :-)
>
>Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator             ||   Chiropractor on a comission from GOD
--                              __||__ The opinions expressed by this au __  _  are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
Command:
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ide          ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!
Command:

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21400.3.1.4778 Re: Reali List Receiver)
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Hi Jeff (Jeff Walkup), in <[e-mail]> on Sep 8 you wrote:

 > If Mike @aImpulse is really concerned about possibly giving support to
 > non-owners, perhaps we could all put our "Impulse customer numbers" in
 > our .sigs.  Ihem to do a quick check if they

I would LOVE this, but unfortunately when I bought Imagine and sent in the
registration card imformed, receive whatever mailing goes out
but until now nothing..
-----
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Read
21400.3.1.4779 Re: Modeling.jpg  (It's really there this time!)
9/8/93 09:07 15/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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Sorry to you folks who were looking for the Imagine Trace I put on
Aminet.r

It is really there thice/model.jpg and model.readme

If you have forgotten.. This is a raytrace I did in Imagine (yes in
rRACE mode so I can say raat work.
It is 640x440, but I have a 1024x768 version if anyone wants it.  Al
objects are my own except the 57 Chevy and gir transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
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xommand:
freebies From ViewPoint (tm)

Enjoy
Adam B.

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I've got an intersting thing going on with Imagine and it)s
render speeds on my two machines.  One is a A2000 with a 50Mhz
030 GVP acclerator, fully populated with ram, and several drives
on the scsi bus.  The other machine is an A3000 with GVP's 28Mhz 040,
14 Meg ram on the 3000 Motherboard and 2 Meg of 40Ns ram on the
040 board.

I have a project that has many complex objects and 4-6 textures(FPU
intensive stuff).  The A3000 w/s40 renders this project at a rate of
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subscribe unsubscribe headers35 mins per frame.  But the amazing part of the problem, is that
the A2000 w/50Mhz 030 renders the same exact frame in 10.5 Min One possible reason
is that the A2000 has the 2.x kickstart Zkicked into fast ram, whare as
the A30m0 has the 2.04 in ROM.
g on both machines with the most limited startup as well
as my full startup config.
Command:

Anymne else have the GVP 040 for the A3000?  Dose adding more 40Ns
ram to the 040 really increace render speeds?  At $200 a MEG, the
40Ns ram is very spendy. (And the 4000/1200 owners are complaining
about prices of the 2/4/8 Meg SIMM's)

Any help is apphiciated.

[e-mail]
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From mmdf Fri Sep  3 18:21:10 1993 remote from ibmpcug
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    Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Message-Id: <Pi1e.3.05.9309030957.A13924-10I'm trying to do an animation of a room with stone walls, timbered ceiling
and wooden floorboards, with a number of objects andeman figure.
What I'd like to do is render ONE frame in trace mode, and use it as a
Global brushmap to render the animation in scanline mode.  Some of the
objects have glass or metal parts.

The animation will be rendered aith the camera at the same i vision.  In this case, all objects are scaled to one Imagine unit=1 cm.,
and the default camera size is 320,640,233, located at Z=167 (X and Y vary
during the animation), and the room is 300 units in radius.

My question ii: what is the best placement ize/lens settings for
the camera for the brushmap shot?  I've tried a 'fisheye' lens setting
from the center of the ceiling, bry well.
Any suggestions, or details on just how Imagine handles the Global Brushmap?

Thanks mn advance!
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly              mInformation Specialist       as its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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To: [e-mail]
From: [e-mail].c anyone received Vertex 2.0 through the upgrade offer yet from the Art
Department? I've been waitcng 3 weeks so far.

Don
Coggestions and errors ?
9/8/93 11:02 26/ [e-mail]@email.sp.paramax.com
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> > SUGGESTIONS FOR FURTHER IMAGINE UPDATES     DATE: 6.9.1993
> > --------------------------'-----------------------------Member  Description
>
> How about #2, an explode where it doesn't just break the object down to
> all the triangles, but cowith a defineable
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or would this end up being covered under "particles"?)
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From: Steve Ziolkowski <[e-mail]>
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Polygon triangulation


>>and one thing I really miss having is an automatic triangulation [e-mail]
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Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 12:18:44 EDT
From: David Watters <[e-mail]>
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Polygon triangulation

> I use the Imagine object editor to do all my modeling, and one thing I
> really miss having is an automatic triangulation routine, like the one
> Sculpt had.  Sometimes it takes longer to put all the triangles into an
> outline than it takes to make the outline of the object itself.
Command:

Even better, get Impulse to support n-sided polygons and make the entire
outline a polygon.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
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                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 10:11:01 EST
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
From: Doug Brooks <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: PC questions

I'm in the process of souping up my pc and was wondering if the PC version of
imagine supports Virtual Memory. Also I was wondering if any other folks have
Command:
Imagine on both platforms and are sharing drives between the machines. What
is the best way of doing this (ie network or is there a cheap way???). Thanks


--
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|        Doug Brooks                 |            100% Virtual               |
|        Doug Brooks Animation       |           Kinetic Dissonant           |
|        [e-mail]     |                                       |
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Lin 30 (33%)
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Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Subject: A500, Imagine and such
To: [e-mail]
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 10:55:16 PDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Hello everyone,
    gine with one of
the old, slow-bus A500s or A2000s.  I have an A500 and GVP A530 w/ 4.5M or
fast ram and 0.5M of chip.  I've significantly on this system when an object fills the screen; guess the
bottleneck is the 16-bit, 8MHz bus and chip ram.  I'm cm on this system, and getting a DCTV, but
I'm not sure how much of a speed improvement this will make.  (Naturally,
the other  in advance
for your time.

                                                Chris Morris
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4788 Priority settings ?
9/8/93 13:14 13/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
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Last time I uuld it increase rendering speed if I would set the
input.device priority to say -1 and then if I wanted to work on
the compute squeezing out this possiblity makes sense when the
computer is rendering at night

Suggestions ?

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From: Kreg Branden <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Powells Internet access

Command:
     Finallried it myself so I can't say exactly what you will
encounter, but I think it will be a description of how to use our database an account to order books).
     If you call PLEASE mention you heard it on the IML.

     Thanks,
Command:

-- Via  a monkey suit to walk around claiming
they're not in a monkey suit.  This, in effect, is what the human species
is doing."

          "Relax and enjoy the show."


Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: imagine@emailUse <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
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move to "Snap Maps"
product in the upper right of their ad?

Allow me to quote:
------------------------
Snap Maps:
Fields & Foliage
$129.95
!!NEW!!
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jading
3D packages!  Save memory and time in creating unmatched photorealistic
scenes of nature and man-made materials.
Comman

There were other items of interest, but this was most intriguing.
Does anyone know of this and how it relates or works with \ /\\ /\\ //_    Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan]
 \/--\// \//__    [e-mail]         McDonnell Douglas-Houston
     //           Hobby:  "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors"
                  GodlyGraphics macs.harding.edu
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Date: 02 Sep 93 18:15:05 EDT
From: John Foust / Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
MMDF-Warning:  Parse error in original version of preceding line t: [e-mail]

David Watters <[e-mail]> writes:
Command:
> Even better, get Impulse to support nge a
triangle-oriented program to a polygon-based program!

> > Mike feels this would allow me to edit (NOT censor) and therefore
> > minimize the noise factor. He would then feel freer to offer
> Let me guess... The guy is a total control freak?!

No, he's just a tired businessman who might not enjoy open flames
Command:
from warez-collecting college kids and slackers wImpulse entered this
> mailing list hoping to find a collection of users that were going to do
> nothing but kiss butt, talk ome, Dave!

Command:
> where Impulse falls short in Imagine features, bug fixes, support, etc.

Yeah, but if they fixed all the bugs, then we'd all have no excuse
for turning out that way-cool, creative, doesn't-suck animation that
we promised to post to the list before finals came around!

> David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
> "Kiernan.  The very name is, to many, the last word in programming. Any kid
>  blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
>                  - Dr. Dobb's Journal, January 1993
Command:


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21400.3.1.4792 Re: Triangle vs Polygon-based
9/8/93 08:20 19/ [e-mail] (Doug Brooks)
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>> Now, I think an 'auto-facing' feature is a different matter, and
>> sure would be a nice feature.
>I suggested the auto-facing feature before Imagine 2.0 came out.  Hopefully
>it'll make it into 3.0 since a lot of people here seem to think it's a good
>idea, bup.  :-\
>> Perhaps one could be written using Glenn Lewis's TTDDDLib (or whatever
>> its called now) as a stopgap measure.

Vertex 2.0 has an auto fill function in it that work great... been using it
for a while now and never had a hitch.
-----
Command:



--
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|        Doug Brooks     tual               |
|        Doug Brooks Animation       |           Kinetic Dissonant           |
|        db119s7449@sycom.|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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From mmdf Thu1993 remote from ibmpcug
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R0.informatik.tu-muenchen.de ([131.159.4.1])
         by tuminfo2.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
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         with SMTP id <57656>; Thule0.informatik.tu-muenchen.de id <110605>; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 20:48:18 +0100
Subject: technical questions
From: Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
To: IML Imagine Maillist <[e-mail]>
Date:   Thu, 2 Sep 1993 22:48:03 +0200
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL6]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 951
Message-Id: <93Sep2.204818mesz.110605@hphasked for them so here they are:

HOW MANY BUGS ARE FIXED IN IMAGINE 3.0 ??????????

 - Using Shininess on half transparent ong star background which doesn't flickers when camera rotates
        slowly

 - Slice, need I say more ?
Command:
 - working PC version !!!!!!
 - fix roughness bug (not working in animations !!!)

SUGGESTIONS for Imagine 3.0:

- macro recording!)
- soft shadows ?
- shadows in scanline
- anti-alaising in project data
- action editor with dragable/expandable bars
Comnto m-face objects
- depth of field
- backdrop imagine automagically scaled to project picture / quickrender
        size
- n Special FX entries per object

IMPORTANT: Mike mentioned some support for students. What is this
support ? I bought imagineayed the official price !!!
Command:

Hannes
Command:

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Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 09:00:10 EDT
From: David Watters <[e-mail]>
Message-Id: <[e-mail]
Subject: Re: IMPULSE...SO LONG FOR NOW


> Mike feels this would allow me to edit (NOT censor) and therefore
> minimize the noise factor. He would then feel freer to offer
> technical assistance on specific Imagine related
Command:

Let me guess... The guy is a total control freak?!

> IN THE MEANTIME, Impulse has decided to temporarily drop off
> the IML, while I help them set up a more convenient
> local access method of receiving Internet mail.
> Mike assures me that he would like to continue reading
> legitimate Imagine question / answer exchange and they will
> be back with us shorty. Shortly after mailing this
> post, I will be removing Impulse from the list, and when
Command:
> I get them ready to roll under a new access, their address
> and status will be announced to you all.

I think the real problem is that the people frse entered this
mailing list hoping to find a collection of users that were going to do
nothing but kiss butt, talk about how amazing Imagine is, and ask a few
simple questions.

I have not seen one post discussing valid, serious bugs that has been
I have not seen what suggestion with regards to Imagine's
Command:
limitations responded to.

Don't get me wrong, I want th, and I hope
when they come back they will dicuss the number of post pointing out
where Impulse falls short in Imagine features, bug fixes, support, etc.

(I am jumping on this because I was sitting here waiting for Mike to
complain about the noise on ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"<Censored>.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. PeJanuary 1993
Command:

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             (at Thu, 2 Sep 93 09:00:10 EDT)
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Octions
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Content-Length: 1097
From: Yury German <[e-mail]>
To: imagine@email. you wrote:
Command:

: > IN THE MEANTIME, Impulse has decided to temporarily drop off
: > the IML, while I help them set up a more convenient
: > local access method of receiving Internet mail.
: > Mike assures me that he would like to continue reading
: > legitimate Imagine question / answer exchange and they will
: > be back with us shortly. Shortly after mailing this
: > post, I will be removing Impulse from the list, and when
: > I get them ready to roll under a new access, their address
: > and status will be announced to you all.
Command:

Well I have a better Idea then this!

How about we setup a seperate mailing list for questions to Impulse! That
will also be echoed here! In other words if you want to direct your
question to IMPULSE then you would mail to an address but as part of the
distribution from that address will be Impulses Email and the Imagine
Mailing List! That way when someone posts to that list it will get echoed
here but will also be sent over to Mike!

Command:
Personally I would hate to go to Digest form!
Command:

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 08:29:38 EDT
From: David Watters <[e-mail]>
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: IMPULSE...MORE LOONS FOR NOW


> David Watters <[e-mail]> writes:
> > Even better, get Impulse to support n-sided polygons and make the
>
Command:
> Why, it's just a Simple Matter Of Programming to change a
> triangle-oriented program to a polygon-based program!

Then why don't they do it?  It would obviously make a couple of people on
this list extremely happy that are hand triangulating everything.

> > Let me guess... The guy is a total control freak?!
>
> No, he's just a tired businessman who might not enjoy open flames
> from warez-collecting college kids and slackers who read the Internet
Command:
> when they're supposed to be working.

Oooh... Good idea John, flame your customers some more.  If only we could
be as productive and dedicated as you, we might deserve to own your software.
I would, however, argue that not a single person on this list was flamming
Mike or Impulse.  They simply asked questions like "When are you going to
fix this broken software, this feature has been broken since Imagine 1.0
first shipped!"

> I think this is a direct quote from Mike's first posting.  Thanks for
Command:
> the welcome, Dave!

Whatever that means, and your welcome.

> > where Impulse falls short in Imagine features, bug fixes, support, etc.
>
> Yeah, but if they fixed all the bugs, then we'd all have no excuse
> for turning out that way-cool, creative, doesn't-suck animation that
> we promised to post to the list before finals came around!

Command:
And how did we get such a chip on those might shoulders?

>>David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
>> "Kiernan.  The very name is, to many, the last word in programming. Any kid
>>  blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
>>                  - Dr. Dobb's Journal, January 1993

Editing someone's quote appears to be not only a copyright infringement, but
also opens you up to some legal action.  Other than that it was very funny!
I think I will wait to sue when I am done laughing. :)
Command:

> I personally think Pixel 3D RULZ!!!

Wow, I had no idea.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
Command:
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993

Command:

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Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 11:05:00 CDT
From: Thomas Setzer <[e-mail]>
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Command:
Subject: Re: IMPULSE...SO LONG FOR NOW
Orginization: Motorola, Inc

Here are two letters Mike Halvorson sent me.  I hope he doesn't mind if I post
them...but then, who cares.  I'll bite my tongue and just let you read them
for yourself....
----- Begin Included Message -----

Mr. Seltzer
        Ah real questions, and they seem to have been unanswered, and for a
Command:
day or two they will remain so.  I dont think that Dave meant to eliminate
any work for us, we just need to deal with your concerns directly not
through compuserve, so we are going to find a better way to communicate.

        Yes I am still here and am just finding a different portal to get
closer to what you are doing with Imagine.

        Fog is sorta broke and yes its fixed in 3.0

        Also if you have a fax, type out your qestions, fax em to me and I
Command:
will fax you back, you can then share all that stuff when whom ever you
would like.,

        For a while, later

        Gosh I wish I knew how to make those faces at the bottom.
        MIke


----- End Included Message -----
Command:
----- Begin Included Message -----

Mr. Setzer,
        Maybe you are just a bit too sensitive, no one, including myself
minds critical review, we get it all the time, there are many who enjoy
finding some thing to voice their opinions about.  I am sorry that you have
not touched a soft spot, I appreciate you taking the time to tell me and
Impulse how we can improve,  I do think that several people who have called
Impulse have asked some of the dumbest questions you could imagine, and
there is possibly a moment where we slap our foreheads and wonder what the
Command:
heck is going on.  Sometimes it is tough to be polite to someone who has
asked a question to something that is actually in the manual.
        You are correct in your asumption that a new manual will help
eliminate tech problems, we would like that as much as you so we hope to
accomplish that.

        Free bug fixes, now there is a good one.  There is no such thing as
a free bug fix, everthing costs money and we dont do interim programs,
there are no secret programs or special versions, when we have a version
that you can get, we publish this fact in the newsletter which goes to
Command:
registered users they can then send in a disk and get a new one, we have
done that several times in the past and it seemed to satisfy everyone.

        Sorry for sounding like a damn recording but some of these BUGS you
speak of are not bugs it is just a misunderstanding of how things work,
that is our fault for not telling you but there are not that many bugs.

        Never the less, I appreciate your comments and hope that you enjoy
Imagine 3.0. Of course you will let us know.

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        Mike

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4798 oolite
9/8/93 17:41 19/ [e-mail]
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Hello imagineers;
        Does anyone know how to do a good oolite? you know the rock that
is whitish creme with a sparkle or real fine glitter in it. what settings
would give me the surface and effect of a very fine glisten? I have Essence
but no math co-processor yet so I pretty much have to do it with imagine.

        Also --my 2 cents worth--
I would like to see some options in imagine to morph the horizon and zeneth
settings.
2- a color wheel like the prefs in workbench everywhere you need to select a
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color that has sliders number slots and the wheel to get to your color quickly
(yes I know you professionals have all these numbers memorized...)
3- boy I hate to say this one again! but here goes*** select a range to render in the project editor then an optional number of simultaeous renderings then the editor returns you to continue designing new material or projects. in other
words select say 12 frames doing three at a time, no need to re-load imagine three times taking up all that memory etc. as we see more and more powerful machines out there the value of this comment will vastly increase! nuf said...

sorry relay I think something got sent to you.

                                                        Thanks
                                                         Lesk
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4799 New release date?
9/8/93 18:15 6/ "Andrew P. Vogel" <[e-mail]>
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Hi everyone. Just wondering, since August has come and gone, if anyone
knows the projected shipping date for Imagine 3.0. My personal guess is
that it will be out around Christmas, but I'd like to hear what everyone
else thinks!

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21400.3.1.4800 Re:  oolite
9/8/93 18:54 8/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
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I'd like to see Imagine be able to use say 100 tree objects but only load 1
tree.  Having multiple copies of an object in one scene can get memory
expensive.

Imagine would retain size, position, etc. for each tree but only reference one
set of tree points,edges,&other object info in memory.

Jason K.
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21400.3.1.4801 Re: Priority settings ?
9/8/93 20:04 18/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (Hannes Heckner) writes:
> Last time I used XOper to monitor the system while rendering with
> Imagine. I noticed that the input.device takes around 25% of the cpu
> time. Would it increase rendering speed if I would set the
> input.device priority to say -1 and then if I wanted to work on
> the computer again just boot it?

XOper isn't quite correct in this.  input.device uses very little CPU time
in actuality and I wouldn't think you'd squeeze much out of the machine if
you dropped its priority.  Try a program like MSIP 1.8 to get a better idea
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how much CPU time input.device uses.  It's more like 3.5% if there is some
mouse movement and other I/O occurring; without that it will probably be
even lower than that.  Not worth the bother, IMHO, unless you're talking
about a project that takes hundreds of hours or longer to render and those
few percent sum up to a difference of many hours or even days.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4802 Re: Priority settings ?
9/9/93 00:49 19/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Wed, 8 Sep 1993, Hannes Heckner wrote:

> Last time I used XOper to monitor the system while rendering with
> Imagine. I noticed that the input.device takes around 25% of the cpu
> time. Would it increase rendering speed if I would set the
> input.device priority to say -1 and then if I wanted to work on
> the computer again just boot it?
> I thought that squeezing out this possiblity makes sense when the
> computer is rendering at night
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>
> Suggestions ?
>
IF you try it let me know how it went.

Nik.



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21400.3.1.4803 Re: oolite
9/9/93 01:04 18/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Wed, 8 Sep 1993, Jason B Koszarsky wrote:

> I'd like to see Imagine be able to use say 100 tree objects but only load 1
> tree.  Having multiple copies of an object in one scene can get memory
> expensive.
>
> Imagine would retain size, position, etc. for each tree but only reference one
> set of tree points,edges,&other object info in memory.

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Yes, this would be ideal! I think that Caligari does this, so it isn't
impossible.
Now, that would be an awesome feature!

Nik.



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4804 Whats happening here
9/9/93 04:03 25/ [e-mail]
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Is it my imagination or are the postings comimg from the following address
old stuff. I really only need to see the stuff one time. If it is old stuff
is there any reason we can't stop the feed. If there is a reason for it to
exsists fine, but why would the IML list want to see stuff again, not to
mention the lag time between this and the original!

>From:  3049::"[e-mail]" "MAIL-11 Daemon"  8-SEP-1993 18:23:51.04
>To:    <[e-mail]>
>CC:
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>Subj:

Notice their is no subject matter given. Looks like someone is automatically
forwarding the IML back onto itself!!!!

>From mmdf Fri Sep  3 18:53:57 1993 remote from ibmpcugFrom:    3049::"[e-mail]" "MAIL-11 Daemon"  8-SEP-1993 18:23:51.04
>To:    <[e-mail]>
>CC:
>Subj:
                                                        bill
Command:
/***********************************************************************
William Leimberger Nahsua N.H. U.S.A. a great place to render

*************************************************************************/

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4805 Brushmaps?
9/9/93 05:21 11/ "Ross Knepper" <[e-mail]>
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Hello!

 I was under the impression that a brush is simply an ILBM with a mask, but
when I try to use an ILBM, Imagine responds that it cannot open the file.
I don't have any program that will convert an ILBM to a brush, so...
- Is there a way to get Imagine (1.1) to use ILBM's a brushes, or...
- Is there a program available via FTP that will convert them???
Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!

 --Ross Knepper
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4806
9/9/93 04:26 18/ [e-mail]
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From:   3049::"[e-mail]" "Michel J. Brown"  8-SEP-1993 08:50:11.30
Subj:   PlayIanm

        I'm sorry I missed the subject on this post. Playianm is in the Docs.
I have often copied anims in playianm format to floppy disk. I copy the
Anim directory to the disk, and then Playianm to a c: directory of the disk.
Then I put "Playianm anim" in the s: directory, user-startup. This gives
a bootable anim disk.(1000 at work has limited memory). All this was gleaned
from the Imagine Manual. BTW for new users, If space allows don't delete
the pics after rendering the anim. Then you simply go into the project
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change screen clik on the other anim format and remake the anim in the project
editor. Imagine will rebuild the anim in the new format. Lately I have been
building iff anims and using ADPro to finalize them.
                                                                bill
/****************************************************************
Wiliam Leimberger Nashua N.H A great place to render

************************************************************************/
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21400.3.1.4807 Re: oolite
9/9/93 05:30 21/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> > I'd like to see Imagine be able to use say 100 tree objects but only load 1
> > tree.  Having multiple copies of an object in one scene can get memory
> > expensive.

> Yes, this would be ideal! I think that Caligari does this, so it isn't
> impossible.
> Now, that would be an awesome feature!

Lightwave 3.0 does this.  It is called clone.  I am sure that Imagine 3.0
will have this also as it's benefits are enormous and it is not hard to
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implement.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
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                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4808 Clouds???
9/9/93 05:17 15/ "- Carsten Berggreen - Denmark -" <[e-mail]>
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Hi there,

Does anybody have ANY suggenstions on how to make MOVING CLOUDS

so that I could make a hunt between to airplanes....?

Signed
---------------------------------------------------------------------
- Address: Carsten Berggreen         E-mail: [e-mail] -
-          Hirsevaenget 16A                                         -
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-          8464  Galten          "It isn't the equipment alone, it  -
-          Denmark                is also what YOU can do with it!" -
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- A true fan of Amiga, Coca-Cola, Imagine and good looking females! -
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4809 REPLY :: Priority ::
9/9/93 05:12 27/ "- Carsten Berggreen - Denmark -" <[e-mail]>
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Hi there,
<heckner> wrote about setting the priority while tracing, I've tried this
myself half a year ago, but I can't say that I was pleased with the result.

I'm not totally sure, but I belive that I saved about 2-3 min on tracings
that took 2-3 hours to trace...   &:-(

But hey, I'm always looking for new ideas to speed up my tracing, so....

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By the way, do you guys'n'girls (?) use a SCREEN-BLANKER while tracing,
or at least go to the workbench (in 4 colors) ??  This will speed up your
tracings, quite a bit in fact, since an old A500 with sloooooowwly chip-mem,
has to use ALL the bitplanes available to make 16 colors i Imagine.

Okay, I admit, if I had an A4000-T (keep dreaming Berggreen!) then I
probarbly wouldn't care very much, but I HAVEN'T!!!!! &:-(

Signed
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-          Hirsevaenget 16A                                         -
-          8464  Galten          "It isn't the equipment alone, it  -
-          Denmark                is also what YOU can do with it!" -
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4810 Zoweee!
9/9/93 07:13 31/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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Salutations Imagineers!   :-)

[e-mail] (William Leimberger) postulates:

>Is it my imagination or are the postings comimg from the following address
>old stuff. I really only need to see the stuff one time. If it is old stuff
>is there any reason we can't stop the feed. If there is a reason for it to
>exsists fine, but why would the IML list want to see stuff again, not to
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>mention the lag time between this and the original!

Yes. You may have noticed a spate of posting from the infamous
[e-mail] account.

There was some problem going on betwixt that site and the IML and
we were working on it in the background. Apparently something went
awry in the troubleshooting out at that end.

Sorry about the inconvenience.
Command:
No need for nasty letters to the root at that account.
I currently have
[e-mail]'s
head on a large sharpened stake here, as a sign to those who don't
handle things to our liking.  ;-)


DaVlad The Impaler Wickard   [phone]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4811 REPLY :: Priority ::
9/9/93 08:29 17/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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Text item: 9/09/93 8:12AM (IA5Text Enclosure)

In a previous life Carsten Berggreen wrote:
>By the way, do you guys'n'girls (?) use a SCREEN-BLANKER while
>tracing, or at least go to the workbench (in 4 colors) ??

I have noticed this (going to workbench) even on my 4000/40 since I
run a lowres 8 color workbench it really helps speed up rendering.

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Anyone have any REAL numbers for this?

Adam B.

P.S.  I suppose if you have an 800x600 256 color 'bench it would
actually SLOW down the rendering to switch to it??

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4812 workbench speedup
9/9/93 08:13 22/ "Rob (R.D.) Hounsell" <[e-mail]>
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Folks,
Forwarded message:
<Carsten writes>:
>
> By the way, do you guys'n'girls (?) use a SCREEN-BLANKER while tracing,
> or at least go to the workbench (in 4 colors) ??  This will speed up your
> tracings, quite a bit in fact, since an old A500 with sloooooowwly chip-mem,
> has to use ALL the bitplanes available to make 16 colors i Imagine.

  Is this true? If I bring the workbench to the front instead of the Imagine
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project screen, will rendering be faster??

Thx
Rob
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| Global Product Performance:            PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Design Team. Dept. PS27  ESN: 395-2904                        |
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| Northern Telecom Public Switching                                           |
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4813 Re: REPLY :: Priority ::
9/9/93 08:31 29/ Wayne Haufler <[e-mail]>
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> In a previous life Carsten Berggreen wrote:
> >By the way, do you guys'n'girls (?) use a SCREEN-BLANKER while
> >tracing, or at least go to the workbench (in 4 colors) ??
>
> I have noticed this (going to workbench) even on my 4000/40 since I
> run a lowres 8 color workbench it really helps speed up rendering.
>
> Anyone have any REAL numbers for this?
>
> Adam B.
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>
> P.S.  I suppose if you have an 800x600 256 color 'bench it would
> actually SLOW down the rendering to switch to it??
>

I don't know about rendering time improvements, but sometimes my
fractal-based screen blanker (called FRACTBLANK?) hangs up my A3000
if I'm rendering.  Or its some interaction between Imagine and
the blanker.  I try to turn it off while rendering, but its probably
dumb to use a relatively cpu-intensive blanker while rendering, anyway.
Command:

I'll have to use a simpler screen-blanker for rendering speed improvements,
I suppose.

             __
\\ /\\ /\\ //_    Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan]
 \/--\// \//__    [e-mail]         McDonnell Douglas-Houston
     //           Hobby:  "Computer Animations For Christian Endeavors"
                  GodlyGraphics mailing list: [e-mail]
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21400.3.1.4814 Re: priority
9/9/93 10:18 19/ "Ross Knepper" <[e-mail]>
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>I don't know about rendering time improvements, but sometimes my
>fractal-based screen blanker (called FRACTBLANK?) hangs up my A3000
>if I'm rendering.  Or its some interaction between Imagine and
>the blanker.  I try to turn it off while rendering, but its probably
>dumb to use a relatively cpu-intensive blanker while rendering, anyway.
>
\\ /\\ /\\ //_    Wayne A. Haufler   [Christian/SW Engineer/XWindows/Amigan]

FracBlank only uses the FPU when it is otherwise idle, so that while Imagine is
rendering, it only displays a blank screen with intermittent fractals when
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Imagine is writing to disk.

My question is, why does Imagine require access to ChipRAM ata all?  All it
needs to do is write to FastRAM and save that do disk, or so I thought...
Updating the %done message is the only thing that requires access to Chip
memory, I think.

 --Ross Knepper

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21400.3.1.4815 Re[2]: priority
9/9/93 10:53 16/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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Text item: 9/09/93 1:18PM (IA5Text Enclosure)


>My question is, why does Imagine require access to ChipRAM ata all?  All
>it needs to do is write to FastRAM and save that do disk, or so I
>thought...  Updating the %done message is the only thing that
>requires access to Chip memory, I think.

> --Ross Knepper
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I'm refering to the OS overhead of displaying the imagine interlaced
screen as opposed to a 4 color workbench low-res.
So it isn't the Imagine program using Chip, It's the Imagine display
Screen using it.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4816 Re: oolite
9/9/93 10:25 24/ [e-mail]@email.sp.paramax.com
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On Thu, 9 Sep 1993, David Watters wrote:

> > > I'd like to see Imagine be able to use say 100 tree objects but only load 1
> > > tree.  Having multiple copies of an object in one scene can get memory
> > > expensive.
>
> > Yes, this would be ideal! I think that Caligari does this, so it isn't
> > impossible.
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> > Now, that would be an awesome feature!
>
> Lightwave 3.0 does this.  It is called clone.  I am sure that Imagine 3.0
> will have this also as it's benefits are enormous and it is not hard to
> implement.


                Don't be TOO sure...


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21400.3.1.4817 re: priority
9/9/93 10:46 13/ [e-mail]
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hello all;
        In reply to the conversation about settings for speed I discovered
that on my 1200 by setting the colors down to 4 or 8 I gained lots of ram
I have some weird things going on though; in my devs drawer I have to use
1: ntsc 2: multiscan 3: vgaonly. I select mutliscan highres but all three have
to exist there. now on my generic monitor things look great but my composite monitor is squggly, now I select imagine and bingo the composite comes clean but the generic goes squiggly, now while in imagine I pull down the screen and behold
a very LARGE workbench screen that requires moving the mouse to see the top or
bottom of the screen. things do go faster than before I got the monitor but It
seems to have been a waste of money it is supposed to be a multisync but thos are the only settings that seem to work(I can use one of the 72 devs but more memory is consumed) any Ideas?

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or should I just enjoy the speed increase.....

                                                        Lesk
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21400.3.1.4818 Re: priority
9/9/93 12:17 14/ "Andrew Church" <[e-mail]>
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>I'm refering to the OS overhead of displaying the imagine interlaced
>screen as opposed to a 4 color workbench low-res.
>So it isn't the Imagine program using Chip, It's the Imagine display
>Screen using it.

  But if Imagine doesn't need to access chip memory, it won't matter whether
the display is one bitplane or eight.  Display DMA runs independently of fast
RAM access.  There is no overhead, because the screen's copper list is already
set up.  Of course, when Imagine is doing an animation, and it has to display
the frames on its own screens, that can be affected by the depth of the
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frontmost screen; but that's only a small fraction of the total rendering time.

  --Andy Church

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4819 Re: REPLY :: Priority ::
9/9/93 13:02 42/ scotte@137.110.2.121 (Scott Ellis)
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Adam Benjamin said on Sep 09 :

>
> Text item: 9/09/93 8:12AM (IA5Text Enclosure)
>
> In a previous life Carsten Berggreen wrote:
> >By the way, do you guys'n'girls (?) use a SCREEN-BLANKER while
> >tracing, or at least go to the workbench (in 4 colors) ??
>
> I have noticed this (going to workbench) even on my 4000/40 since I
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> run a lowres 8 color workbench it really helps speed up rendering.
>

Lores? Icky icky icky.

> Anyone have any REAL numbers for this?
>
> Adam B.
>
> P.S.  I suppose if you have an 800x600 256 color 'bench it would
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> actually SLOW down the rendering to switch to it??

Yes...on ECS systems at least, the horizontal overscan and color depth are what
steal bandwidth, and cause slowdowns in applications.  ECS systems are capable of
running 2 bitplane (4 color) 640 pixel wide screens without any DMA problems.
Since Imagine uses a 16 color screen, just refreshing the display steals CPU time
and slows down renders.  I'm not sure of the color/depth/bandwidth situation on
AGA systems, but I presume it to be very similar.  If you're viewing the
Workbench screen on an AGA system then the screen in interleaved, and you get
either a 2x or 4x bandwidth improvement...so that would seem to suggest that a 4
Command:
bitplane, 640 pixel wide screen would be "perfect", and anything larger or deeper
would cause bandwidth contention, and slow down renderings.

Personally, I almost always run Imagine at -1 priority ("TOOLPRI=-1" tooltype),
so I can continue work on my system without any noticeable slowdown.  I also use
the screen blanker "spliner" which can either open a 1 bitplane screen, or turn
off video dma alltogether.
   /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
  //  Scott Ellis //  IRC: ScottE // WARNING: This signature warps   //
 //    [e-mail]   //  time and space in its vicinity //
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/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4820 Re: oolite
9/9/93 08:04 14/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
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> > > Having multiple copies of an object in one scene can get memory
> > > expensive.

> Lightwave 3.0 does this.  It is called clone.

However, the LW3 clone feature does not save you memory. 10 cloned trees
still consume 10 trees worth of memory.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
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%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4821 Re:
9/9/93 02:55 15/ [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
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>      Finally our Internet deal is up.  You can reach us at;
>
>           [e-mail]

Ok, since I am new here, could you explain what this is please?  What
kind of database is it?  What will it do, etc.  Thanks..

___
 X MsgView V1.13 [R029] X  +
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--
Cuerna Verde BBS FidoNet Gateway
Pueblo, Colorado USA
Data/Fax: [phone]
FidoNet: 1:307/18
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4822 oolite-2
9/9/93 19:45 8/ [e-mail]
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mmmmmm..... Lots of replies to oolite but not a peep about it. I know this
stuff exists, there is a mormon temple nearby that is made from it.
        I would like to make a gazeebo like the one on the cover of vertex
manual and use this look for the pillers but I just can't seem to get it right
effect. Alas I am but a lowly imagineer novice dreaming of 3.0 already....

                                                        Thanks
                                                         Lesk
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4823 Textures
9/9/93 22:31 5/ [e-mail]
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  What (if any) are some good setting to use with the default textures for
common effects like stone, granite, marble, clouds, etc?  Are there texture
settings files out there?

                                           /// Mike ///
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4824 Re:: workbench speedup
9/9/93 23:35 49/ "- Carsten Berggreen - Denmark -" <[e-mail]>
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Hi there (again),

to answer some of the letters, which I read after I had written mine yesterday.
(Ehh? Does anybody understand that sentence?  &:-) )

If you use an "old " amiga with the old chipset (NOT AGA, that is)
then you can be sure that Imagine will render very SLOOOOOOWLY,

Why?
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I actually very simple, and therfore I'll try to explain:

Because of the Amiga's "multi-tasking" bus structure, we have something
called the DMA-BUS (Direct Memory access) which makes it possible for
all the chips to access the same locations.

That's why you can have Graphic, Samples, Programs in the same type of RAM,
the so called CHIP-RAM.

Command:
BUT it's made by using priority for the chips, so when you tell the graphic
system to show 16 color HIRES/MEDRES(640) then it needs A LOT of the access
time to your CHIPRAM (in order to show the screen) and the your processor
has a SERIOUS PROBLEM, called ACCESS TIME.
It simple has a lower priority than the graphic, and this you can't change!
Instead you should try rendering with less colors on the screen,
(This is NOT in your rendering settings, but the settings your workbench
 is setup with)

Therefore, use a 2 or 4 colored workbench and go to it when you've started
Command:
your projekt, ofcause you can't see when your finished, but hey!
Go and click it in front and back again with the gadgets in the upper right
corner of your workbench/imagine screen.

Well, as Arnie use to say:

"I'll be BACK!"

Signed
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Command:
- Address: Carsten Berggreen         E-mail: [e-mail] -
-          Hirsevaenget 16A                                         -
-          8464  Galten          "It isn't the equipment alone, it  -
-          Denmark                is also what YOU can do with it!" -
---------------------------------------------------------------------
- A true fan of Amiga, Coca-Cola, Imagine and good looking females! -
---------------------------------------------------------------------


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4825 Signature
9/9/93 10:58 19/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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From: John Foust - Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: PlayIanm

>Your signature is quite long.  Would you consider shortening it?
>
John, your message is unclear, what do you suggest? You're the first (and
only) person to say anything. Take care, God Bless, and I'll BCNU!

Warm regards,
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Michel

                                  ||
                                __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
[e-mail] __  __ are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4826 Imagine 3.0
9/9/93 13:32 26/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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From: "Andrew P. Vogel" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: New release date?


>Hi everyone. Just wondering, since August has come and gone, if anyone
>knows the projected shipping date for Imagine 3.0. My personal guess is
>that it will be out around Christmas, but I'd like to hear what everyone
>else thinks!
>
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I heard October mentioned by the folks at Impulse (with manual), but I
suspect it'll be next January, due to tax breaks, new quarter, fiscal year
end, etc. It all come down to what the cost accountants say in the end ;-7
Take care all, God Bless, and I'll BCNU!

Warm regards,

Michel

                                  ||
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                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4827 Brush <-> ILBM's
9/9/93 13:45 31/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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From: "Ross Knepper" <[e-mail]>
To: "imagine" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Brushmaps?

>Hello!
>
G'day!
>
> I was under the impression that a brush is simply an ILBM with a mask, but
>when I try to use an ILBM, Imagine responds that it cannot open the file.
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>I don't have any program that will convert an ILBM to a brush, so...
>- Is there a way to get Imagine (1.1) to use ILBM's a brushes, or...
>- Is there a program available via FTP that will convert them???
>Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
Try using Deluxe paint, it should do what you want on a *still* image, or
alternatively, try using Icon Master, a PD program that can make Icons
from brushes, ILBM's, etc., and back again. Lemme know how it goes, eh?
>
> --Ross Knepper
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>
Warm regards,
Michel

                                  ||
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                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4828 Anim5 vs Anim7
9/9/93 13:40 42/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
Subject: Re: PlayIanm

Michel J. Brown writes:
>> I have
>> used both VTek, and MainActor, and I get no speed differences between
>> Anim-5 and 7, 'cept 7 is a memory hog by about 20%!

>I could get a tremendous difference on the A500, like a 60% speedup,
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>
That's understandable, given your limitations.
>
>even using only the 16-bit version of Anim-7 (I only tested this with
>that morph-demo anim of the woman and the leopard).
>
I can't comment on that, as I am running a 32 bit system:^)
>
>Remember that VTek doesn't default to the fastest playback speed
>(I think it, like Imagine's playianm, defaults to 30fps)
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>
Without a frame counter, that becomes an unknown quantity. That's why I
prefer Main Actor over View Tek.
>
>and you have to hit F1 to see how fast it can really go
>
All I know is that I get 60fps with Main Actor in either Anim-5, or Anim-7
mode, and with the greater memory requirements of Anim-7, I'll stick with
Anim-5 until something better (like MPEG:^) comes along for the Amiga.
>
Command:
>Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]
>
Warm regards,
Michel

                                  ||
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                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
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                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4829 Another Anim format vs format
9/9/93 13:44 41/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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From: Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  PlayIanm

>What kind of anims do you do?
>
Primarily HAM lace overscan of digital videofluoroscopy images captured
for video work.
>
>anim7 will literally double the speed of an anim5.
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>
*NOT* from my experience. But from what I hear from the stock 68k crowd,
this appears to be the case.
>
>I can get 20fps on 80%+ delta anims that would bring anim5 to a crawl.
>
Using Main Actor, I *always* get 60fps in either Anim-5 or Anim-7, given
the same anim, just converted for comparison.
>
>I lose space to increased anim size but that's a trade I'll
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>gladly make for twice the speed.
>
In your case, I can understand the situation. But for me, I only have 11MB
of ram, and need even more, for larger anim sequences. And 60 fps is
double what I need, so I'm not so concerned with speed (is'nt that what
accelerators are for?) as I am with space. Even my old trusty 40MB HD is
*way* too small, and I need a bigger drive, like ASAP! What kind of system
are you running, and what kind of anims are you into? I'm looking forward
to seeing more around here, take care, God Bless, and I'll BCNU!

Command:
Warm regards,

Michel

                                  ||
                                __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
[e-mail] __  __ are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4830 A500 upgrades
9/9/93 13:38 38/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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Subject: A500, Imagine and such
To: [e-mail]
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 10:55:16 PDT
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

>Hello everyone,
>       I'm wondering if anyone out there uses DCTV and Imagine with one of
>the old, slow-bus A500s or A2000s.  I have an A500 and GVP A530 w/ 4.5M or
>fast ram and 0.5M of chip.  I've noticed that HAM animations slow
>significantly on this system when an object fills the screen; guess the
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>bottleneck is the 16-bit, 8MHz bus and chip ram.  I'm contemplating
>increasing the chip and fast ram on this system, and getting a DCTV, but
>I'm not sure how much of a speed improvement this will make.  (Naturally,
>the other option is to save for an AGA or PC system)
>       Any impressions out there on DCTV for this system, or DCTV in
>general?  I use View 3.2 to play back my anims.  Many thanks in advance
>for your time.
>
Chris: Go ahead and get the DCTV, it is supported by *many* GFX programs,
including Imagine. Also upgrade to 2MB of chip ram, as you'll need it! You
Command:
need to put in an FPU to speed up your A530, as the non-FP Imagine is butt
assed s-l-o-w! IMHO, your system would benefit greatly from these
additions. You'd be looking at around $600 for the extras, but your system
will fairly fly! Good luck, happy rendering, and I'll BCNU!
>
>       Chris Morris
>
Warm regards,

Michel
Command:

                                  ||
                                __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
[e-mail] __  __ are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
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                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4831 030/882 vs 040
9/9/93 13:36 65/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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From: [e-mail] (Ray Collett)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Imagine render speeds on 040 vs 030


>I've got an intersting thing going on with Imagine and it's
>render speeds on my two machines.  One is a A2000 with a 50Mhz
>030 GVP acclerator, fully populated with ram, and several drives
>on the scsi bus.  The other machine is an A3000 with GVP's 28Mhz 040,
>14 Meg ram on the 3000 Motherboard and 2 Meg of 40Ns ram on the
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>040 board.

>I have a project that has many complex objects and 4-6 textures(FPU
>intensive stuff).  The A3000 w/040 renders this project at a rate of
>35 mins per frame.  But the amazing part of the problem, is that
>the A2000 w/50Mhz 030 renders the same exact frame in 10.5 Minutes!!!
>How is this possible???
>
Can you say "transcendental math"? Sure you can, I knew you could!
>
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>I compared both pictures and they are identical.
>the 040 has all caches/copyback/ect. turned on.  One possible reason
>is that the A2000 has the 2.x kickstart Zkicked into fast ram, where as
>the A3000 has the 2.04 in ROM.
>
Come on, your A3000 has a 32 bit path to those roms, only the original
A3000's would have no roms, and therefore copy to ram:
>
>Both machines are using the FPU version of Imagine.  I have tried
>rendering on both machines with the most limited startup as well
Command:
>as my full startup config.
>
That would only make a difference if you have high priority TSR's running
in the background on the A3000.
>
>Anyone else have the GVP 040 for the A3000?  Does adding more 40Ns
>ram to the 040 really increase render speeds?  At $200 a MEG, the
>40Ns ram is very spendy. (And the 4000/1200 owners are complaining
>about prices of the 2/4/8 Meg SIMM's)
>
Command:
>From what I understand, faster memory only decreases your wait states, and
not much is gained beyond 60ns, which approximates a pixel rate of 35ns,
while 40ns memory approximates a pixel rate of 25ns, which would be
impractical on a ECS/OCS chip based machine, unless you are using a higher
pixel rate GFX card, like the Retina, Merlin, Picasso, Piccolo, etc.
>
>Any help is appreciated.
>
My old 50 Mhz A2630 was actually faster with Imagine than my Zeus board
is. I think that the transcendentals must have a bearing on this, but that
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is an unknown quantity IMHO. Anybody else know what the difference is?
>
>[e-mail]
>
Warm regards,

Michel

                                  ||
                                __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
Command:
[e-mail] __  __ are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
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                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4832 Anim 5 vs Anim 7 (again)
9/9/93 13:42 53/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
To: [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
Subject: Re: PlayIanm

>>>First of all, this animation sounds interesting, could you upload it to
>>>an FTP site so I could check it out?  I'm doing something similar -
>>>Flight Recorder with Imagine and Vista, and I'd love to see what your
>>>friend did.
>>>
>> Sure, if my SA will allow for that. All I need is the path to ping to ;^)
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>I meant put it up on Aminet or the IML file section on wuarchive.
>Try [wuarchive.wustl.edu] in /systems/amiga/boing/video/imagine or
>/systems/amiga/aminet.
>
MJB: OK, I'll see what I can do ;-)
>
>> used both VTek, and MainActor, and I get no speed differences between
>> Anim-5 and 7, 'cept 7 is a memory hog by about 20%!
>>
Command:
>> I'd think that Anim-5 would produce smaller files, not so?

>Anim7 does produce larger files, but they decompress much faster, ergo
>faster playback speed.  If you are already getting 30fps in Anim5, you
>probably won't get much more from Anim7.  But try making an anim in
>hires (736x482) with a camera pan or something that produces large
>deltas (changes from frame to frame).  In Anim7, on a 3000 at least, you
>will probably see fps go from 8-10 up to 20, or 20 go up to 30.
>
MJB:Currently most of my anim's are 384 X 482 X 6 (HAM mode lace overscan) for
Command:
MJB:video work, and usually I'll get ~60K per frame on delta compression.
>
>>>(By the way, what's a BCNU? ;)
>>>
>>Uhhh, try sounding it out, maybe that'll help :-)
>
>Heh, yeah, figured it out!
>
MJB: I *new* you could do it ;^)
>
Command:
>Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
>
Warm regards,

Michel

                                  ||
                                __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
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                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
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                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4833 Impulse policies
9/9/93 10:57 66/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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From: [e-mail] (Imagine Mailing List Receiver)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Realignment

Hi Jeff (Jeff Walkup), in <[e-mail]> on Sep 8 you
wrote:

> > If Mike @ Impulse is really concerned about possibly giving support to
> > non-owners, perhaps we could all put our "Impulse customer numbers" in
> > our .sigs.  It wouldn't be too hard for them to do a quick check if they
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>I would LOVE this, but unfortunately when I bought Imagine and sent in the
>registration card I never heard from Impulse again, I tried a letter, but
>o reply. I would like to stay imformed, receive whatever mailing goes out
>but until now nothing..
>
Well, at least you got a card! All I got was two fried program disks, no
sleeves for the disks, and styrofoam peanut shells paking the box! Can you
say, " static discharge"? Then I mailed the product twice back to Impulse,
once to their old address, and again to their new address - both times
Command:
returned by the PO as undeliverable - *NO* address current! So I tried
calling, even the phone company denied any listing. Upon my attorney's
recommendation, I posted a declaration of intent to Impulse on GEnie as a
public statement, giving them 30 days to respond, and meet USC chap 202 of
the UCC re: satisfaction and accord of a defective product by the
manufacturer. What happened next really suprised me! Mike Halvorsen (sp?)
called me up and said if I shipped the disks to him UPS, he'd remedy my
situation post haste. I did, and He did; four days later, I had working
copies of Imagine 2.0!
>
Command:
>I guess the card got lost, I am therefore notregistered and in the eyes of
>Impulse I might as well be a pirate..
>
Well, what can I say? Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose, and
sometimes you don't get to choose! I *still* hav'nt got a customer number,
even though I have gotten their last newsletter (after calling an inquiry
about the much rumored V3.0)! Frankly, I believe IMHO, that only direct
purchasers get customer numbers, and support, unless you threaten legal
action :^) All I ask for is recognition as a legitimate user that got the
program locally from a local supplier (which I support to the tune of
Command:
mucho denairo), instead of being told, "Gee, you are'nt a registered user,
we did'nt get your card!" On the frontispiece of the manual (fourth
paragraph, second sentence) it states, "In order for you to acquire
updates to Imagine you must send in your warrenty card which is supplied
with the Imagine software package." BULL! If they were conversant with the
law on this matter, they would know that mere possession of their product
constitutes an implied warrenty of function, which they must honor, or
face repudiation for violation of the UCC, chap 2 subchap 202,
responsibilities of a merchant, and rights of the consumer. I am no longer
disgruntled with Impulse, as we have reached satisfaction, and accord, on
Command:
the funcionality of their product, yet they still deny me a user number,
even though I returned ALL FOUR disks, and recieved them back in THEIR
mailer, with THEIR labels affixed to the disks (no styrofoam this time:^)
Food for thought, thanks for the ear, and I'll shut up now ;-7

Warm regards,

Michel

                                  ||
Command:
                                __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
[e-mail] __  __ are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4834 Re: Brushmaps?
9/10/93 11:48 45/ [e-mail] ()
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On Sep 9,  7:21am, "Ross Knepper" wrote:
> Subject: Brushmaps?
> Hello!
>
>  I was under the impression that a brush is simply an ILBM with a mask, but
> when I try to use an ILBM, Imagine responds that it cannot open the file.
> I don't have any program that will convert an ILBM to a brush, so...
> - Is there a way to get Imagine (1.1) to use ILBM's a brushes, or...
> - Is there a program available via FTP that will convert them???
> Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!
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>
>  --Ross Knepper
>
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from "Ross Knepper"

Hi Ross,

Yes you should be able to use an ILBM image as a brush. What program this image
Command:
come from ? Maybe you should try to re-load it in another program (Dpaint if it
is not IFF24, ADPRO, TV-Paint or ImageMaster if it is 24bit), then re-save it.
Don't save it as an 8bit (grey) image from ADPro. Use Gray-to-color operator, in
order to have it in 24bit.

Robin


--

Command:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
      Silicon Graphics

      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4835 Re: Imagine render speeds on 040 vs 030
9/10/93 11:39 72/ [e-mail] ()
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On Sep 8,  9:56am, Ray Collett wrote:
> Subject: Imagine render speeds on 040 vs 030
>
> I've got an intersting thing going on with Imagine and it's
> render speeds on my two machines.  One is a A2000 with a 50Mhz
> 030 GVP acclerator, fully populated with ram, and several drives
> on the scsi bus.  The other machine is an A3000 with GVP's 28Mhz 040,
> 14 Meg ram on the 3000 Motherboard and 2 Meg of 40Ns ram on the
> 040 board.
>
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> I have a project that has many complex objects and 4-6 textures(FPU
> intensive stuff).  The A3000 w/040 renders this project at a rate of
> 35 mins per frame.  But the amazing part of the problem, is that
> the A2000 w/50Mhz 030 renders the same exact frame in 10.5 Minutes!!!
> How is this possible???  I compared both pictures and they are identical.
> the 040 has all caches/copyback/ect. turned on.  One possible reason
> is that the A2000 has the 2.x kickstart Zkicked into fast ram, whare as
> the A3000 has the 2.04 in ROM.
>
> Both machines are using the FPU version of Imagine.  I have tried
Command:
> rendering on both machines with the most limited startup as well
> as my full startup config.
>
> Anyone else have the GVP 040 for the A3000?  Dose adding more 40Ns
> ram to the 040 really increace render speeds?  At $200 a MEG, the
> 40Ns ram is very spendy. (And the 4000/1200 owners are complaining
> about prices of the 2/4/8 Meg SIMM's)
>
> Any help is appriciated.
>
Command:
> [e-mail]
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from Ray Collett

Ray,

You should *absolutely* buy another 2Meg of expensive 40ns RAM (I hope they are
still available). So you will be able to turn on burst mode (some jumpers to
change on the board), it will definitely speed up your rendering. And you can do
Command:
that with only 4 or 8 Megs of RAM on the board.
Anyway, the difference of time between the two machine is weird. I used to
render the same scene on a A2000 with Hurricane '030 and on the A3000 with
G-Force '040, the A3000 was about 4 to 5 times quicker.
Are you sure the settings are the same on both machines ? (Settings mean Imagine
preferences : Anti-aliasing - EDLE, multiple reflections, resolution, etc ?).

Hope it helps.

Robin
Command:





--

---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
Command:
      Silicon Graphics

      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4836 Re: Clouds???
9/10/93 11:58 58/ [e-mail] ()
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On Sep 9,  2:17pm, "- Carsten Berggreen - Denmark -" wrote:
> Subject: Clouds???
> Hi there,
>
> Does anybody have ANY suggenstions on how to make MOVING CLOUDS
>
> so that I could make a hunt between to airplanes....?
>
> Signed
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> - Address: Carsten Berggreen         E-mail: [e-mail] -
> -          Hirsevaenget 16A                                         -
> -          8464  Galten          "It isn't the equipment alone, it  -
> -          Denmark                is also what YOU can do with it!" -
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> - A true fan of Amiga, Coca-Cola, Imagine and good looking females! -
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from "- Carsten Berggreen - Denmark -"
Command:

You could try to use some spheres or ellipses with fog attribute (as you asked,
it is only a suggestion).

Or try a trick which is used in some real-time animation on a very famous
RealityEngine (Silicon Graphics) demo : in order to render trees, as this
graphics board does real-time brush-mapping, they use some planes with a tree
picture mapped on it (with a color and a filter map). When you move, the plane
rotate so that  it is always perpendicular to you (easy to do in Imagine - use
TRACK to CAMERA), so you see it always front view. Believe me, if you don't know
Command:
the trick you don't see it !
You could try it with some clouds images (and you can make them partially
transparent).

What do you think of it ?

Robin



Command:

--

---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
      Silicon Graphics

      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
Command:
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4837 Re: Impulse policies
9/10/93 06:49 28/ John Foust - Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]
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To: >internet: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Kiernan Impersonator) writes:
> sleeves for the disks, and styrofoam peanut shells paking the box! Can you
> say, " static discharge"? Then I mailed the product twice back to Impulse,

Static electricity has nothing to do with scrogged disks.

> once to their old address, and again to their new address - both times
> returned by the PO as undeliverable - *NO* address current! So I tried
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> calling, even the phone company denied any listing. Upon my attorney's

Impulse, Inc.
8416 Xerxes Ave. North
Minneapolis, MN 55444
[phone]

And they're in the phone book, I was in Mpls last weekend and looked.

And by the way, it's not necessary to re-quote entire messages, it's
Command:
not polite to do that and then type "gee, yeah" to the whole list.
Keep in mind that the Imagine mailing list should not be used for
endless messages about chip RAM, 000 vs 030 vs 040 vs Screamer, DCTV
vs VT vs Opal, etc., and also that your warmy-fuzzy ten-line
BCNU 10SNE1 GEEZUS signature isn't Imagine-related, either.



Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4838 Re: BrushmapsEXTRACT/MAIL
9/10/93 08:20 7/ "Ross Knepper" <[e-mail]>
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Thank you, to everyone who responded!!
It turns out that Mandelmania (a great program otherwise, BTW) doesn't save
right.  I tried a different program, and Imagine loaded it just fine.  Thanks
again!

 --Ross Knepper

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4839 archicad to imagine
9/10/93 08:19 9/ [e-mail]
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Hello all;
        Does anyone know how to get an object from archicad on the mac
into imagine? archicad is a package for home design and a freind of mine
uses it for his business, I would like to enhance his work with imagine
and earn enough to accelerate my 1200, any Ideas or am I up in the night?
and this simply cannot be done.

                                                Thanks
                                                 Lesk
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4840 RE: Impulse Policies
9/10/93 08:05 17/ [e-mail]
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Geez I was sure suprised to here what happened to Michel.
I bought imagine from creative computers it only took a couple days
        (in my excitment it seemed like years) to arrive. yes the bubble
packing was the infamous peanuts and yet all my disks worked fine the
card was loose in the box I think but was readily available I filled it out
right then and sent it out the same day. About a week or so later my newsletter
showed up and hand written on the address area was a number that I later
found out was my number. I have called impulse maybe three times but I have
not had any bad experiences (other than my own inablility to explain my trouble
clearly) they have seemed to be helpful and freindly. I find that suprising
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actually since they are under a lot of pressure to get 3.0 out NOW! I have
been in a similar situation and the last few weeks before a release can
be #$^& if you know what I mean. anyway I did not order directly from them
and have treated well. I hope I am not an exception....

                                        Best Always
                                          Lesk
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4841 Re: Impulse policies
9/10/93 08:24 25/ [e-mail]@email.sp.paramax.com
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On 10 Sep 1993, John Foust - Syndesis Corporation wrote:

> Impulse, Inc.
> 8416 Xerxes Ave. North
> Minneapolis, MN 55444
> [phone]
>
> And they're in the phone book, I was in Mpls last weekend and looked.
----t
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 t      <Blah Blah Blah deleted>

        BUT if you are calling information and tell them that they are in
Minneapolis the optrator WILL tell you that there is no listing.  They are
really located in Brooklyn Park, a northern suburb of Minneapolis.  They
used to publish this in thier address, but I suppose that more people can
identify a large city as opposed to a small suburb.

        Cyrus J. Kalbrener
Command:


                                        (I know 'cuz I live in St. Paul...)

b
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4842 Re: oolbte
9/10/93 08:53 19/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Thu, 9 Sep 1993, Mark Thompson wrote:

> > > > Having multiple copies o  an object in one scene can get memory
> > > > expensive.
>
> > Lightwave 3.0 does this.  It is called clone.
>
> Howe er, the LW3 clone feature does not save you memory. 10 cloned trees
> still consume 10 trees worth of memory.
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So, it seems that only Caligari can do this. Shame, this kind of thing
would really decrease the memory usage in many cases.

Nik.
nvuko [e-mail]



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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail] )
21400.3.1.4843 PC Imagine fast at rendering slow at showing results !
9/10/93 11:47 14/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
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--i--
I tried some renderings on the PC Imagine (using a 386) and I must
say that it renders faster than on my Amiga 3000. But when PC Imagine
has finished its rendering part it takes eternities before it
displays the picture.

My question: Why ?

Dohnot answer: Because of an ill programmed dithering algo. because
the described delay takes also place when rendering in TrueColor !

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Clmmand:
Help needed
Thanks
Hannes

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4844 Bit Plane DMA
9/10/93 10:03 7/ [e-mail]
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Any screen containing more that 4 colors (Hires screens) will start stealing
processor time, independant of chip RAM access requirements.  Custom chips
steal processor time in order to do the extra screen DMA fetches required for
many colors and overscan.  Switching to a screen only 640 pixels wide and only
2 or 4 colors will speed up your machine...

Cheers, Don
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4845 Re: Imagine render speeds on 040 vs 030
9/10/93 10:10 5/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
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yould the slower 040 times be caused byt the fact that Imagine is not
optimized for an 040.  All math functions that Imagine does would go
through C= math.library stuff, thus slowing it down.

Jason K.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imaeine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4846 Re: Impulse policies
9/10/93 10:33 24/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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> Ana by the way, it's not necessary to re-quote entire messages, it's
> not polite to do that and then type "gee, yeah" to the whole list.
> Keep in mind that the Imagine mailing list should not be used for
> endless messages about chip RAM, 000 vs 030 vs 040 vs Screamer, DCTV
> vs VT vs Opal, etc., and also that your warmy-fuzzy ten-line
> BCNU 10SNE1 GEEZUS signature isn't Imagine-related, either.

John... I swear.  It is cool to point out people's posting foo-pahs now
and then, but I am starting to wonder if the % of your posts that are
complaints about people's content doesn't out weight the other non-Imagine
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related messages around here!

Anyways... What is the status of the 3D-ROM?

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Wateers   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
Command:
"Peers   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
Command:
"Peers   ~   ( )-_______-()`-

--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
Command:
"Pee.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4847 040 and Imagine
9/10/93 12:49 27/  [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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NOTE: This post was sent to the [e-mail] address
      and is being forwadded to the list by me. Please be certain when replying
      to IML posts that your REPLY function is grabbing the correct address:
      [e-mail]
      If not, be certain to either change the address, or at least Cc: a copy
      there. Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 12:05 23 -0400
From: Rob Borsari <[e-mail]>
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To: [e-mail]
Subject: 040 and Imagine


I had the same speed problem on my a4000 (as anyone with an 040 will)
but a friend sent me a new math library for the 040.  It replaces the
non floating point library with one that uses the 040 FPU correctly.
then any non fpu program that calls that lib (as imagine and Propage do)
will be at full speed on an 040 equiped machine.  Its pretty small and
I can mail copies to (a small number hopefully) anyone who asks.
Command:

Note: you must use the int version of imagine for this to speed up your
system.

-R-

[e-mail]  Rob Borsari  "Bourne to be Wild"
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine .mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4848 re: Archicad to imagine
9/10/93 14:04 16/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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levk writes:

 Does anyone know how to get an object from archicad on the mac
into imagine? archicad is a package for home desivn and a freind of mine
uses it for his business, I would like to enhance his work with imagine

Archicad can save in DXF forvn and a freind of mine
uses it for his business, I would like to enhance his work with imagine

Archicad can save in DXF forv. Get Interchange+ from Syndesis, and you can
convert DXF to Imagine, and be ready to go. Apparently, Archicad's DXF conversion
is quite good from what i have seen, and is readily importable to other mac
programs thru DXF.
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btw, Archicad is a very goad architecture oriented package, although at a retail
price of 4000 dollars (+ hardware copy protection :-) is probably a bit much for
"home design" :-)

kevin
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (maim to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4849 re:040 and Imagine
9/10/93 14:12 8/ [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)
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lightwave u)ed to have the same numbers, i.e. some scenes rendering faster using
an 030/882 than an 040, due to LW's textures not being optimized for the 040.
Of course, the latest LW *MOVES* on an 040, and is now eyeing for *screaming* levels :-)
kevin
[e-mail]
p.s. i assume the new imagine will also be 040 optimized....

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagite (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4850 Re: priority (fwd)
9/10/93 10:52 22/ "Rob (R.D.) Hounsell" <[e-mail]>
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Folls,

>   But if Imagine doesn't need to access chip memory, it won't matter whether
> the display is one bitplane or eight.  lisplay DMA runs independently of fast
> RAM access.  There is no overhead, because the screen's copper list is already
> set lp.

  So, does anyone have an answer? I was following the thread and thinking
"yeah, that makes sense" until I saw this notl fragment. I suppose if the above
is true there would be no hit in processor bus access unless the "% finished"
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is updated, ls someone else mentioned.

  If no one has any figures, I'll try to run some tests this weekend.

Rob
+-------------------l---------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| Global Product Performance:            PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Design Team. Dept. PS27  ESN: 395-2904                        |
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| Northern Telecom Public Switching                                           |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4851 Re: priority
9/10/93 18:43 12/ "Andrew Church" <[e-mail]>
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>  If no one has any figures, I'il try to run some tests this weekend.

  I made a little test program to test this out.  It opened a 320x200x6
screen and exicuted a simple loop 500000 times, then opened a 320x200x1
screen and did the same thing.  In both cases, the running time of the loop
was 7.5 seconds.

  So, it shouldn't make a difference whether the Imagine screen is at the
front or not, as long as all the Imagine stuff is in Fast RAM.

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  --Andy Church

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4852 Forwarded from Lesk...
9/10/93 21:23 28/ "J_GEORGE" <[e-mail]>
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From:   VGER>:WINS%"[e-mail]" 10-SEP-1993 19:35:10.24
To:     J_GEORGE
CC:
Subj:   RE: archicad to imagine

Return-Path: <>[e-mail]>
Received: from CC.SNOW.EDU by vger.nsu.edu with SMTP ;
          Fri, 10 Sep 93 19:35:06 EST
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 17:35:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: [e-mail]
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To:   [e-mail]
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: archicad to imagine

Thanks J.;
        This is a very strong possibility for down the road we may be requred
to use photographs etc. to rebuild burned down structures or replace decayed
antiquities, but our first goal will be to just interact within these two
environments (mac and amiga) then take advantage of both worlds my side being
amiga and imagine. I am keeping a copy of this for future use and hope that
Command:
it is ok. I have hesitated to by Worley's book because I thought 3.0 would
be out before I finished the imagine manual (yuk! yuk! was I fooled). anyway
thank you for your response if you would like to forward this to the IML
feel free to do so as I have not figured out this new machine I am using and
can't seem to include mail or cc yet.
                                                Thanks
                                                 Lesk

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4853 Re: Textures
9/11/93 21:59 12/ Johan Andersson <[e-mail]>
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>What (if any) are some good setting to use with the default textures for
>common effects like stone, granite, marble, clouds, etc?  Are there texture
>settings files out there?

>              o                            /// Mike ///


Well. if you buy Essence II, you will not only find a lot of new textures
but aloo a great amount of attributes. (settings)
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        / Johan
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (m il to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4854 Cryptic manual docs
9/11/93 12:06 26/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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Frlm: [e-mail]
Subj:   PlayIanm

>Playianm is in the Docs.
>
Yes, but it is very glib as to how to use lt, and the type of files it
will work with.
>
>All this was gleaned from the Imagine Manual.
>
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If you understand what thal means, then you are a better person than I am.
My hat's off to you for your astute elucidation of the (rather
cryptic)manual:^)
>                                                               bill
>
Warm regards,

Michel

                       :          ||
Command:
                                __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
Michel_J._Brown@nesbbx:rain.COM __  __ are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4855 Re: priority
9/12/93 09:35 13/ "Andrew Church" <[e-mail]>
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>Lores screens steal no cycles from the CPU.  Try instead a 2 or 3 bitplane
>640x200 and 640x400 screen and THEN try it with 4 bitplanes.  You'll notice
>the difference then.  Remember, Imagine doesn't run on a lores screen, and
>neither does Workbench.  The WB-to-front trick works only if your WB has
>less than 4 bitplanes.

  Oops... you're right.  I re-did it this way, and found that having a hires
screen with less that 4 bitplanes reduces execution time by about 3% compared
to having a 4-bitplane hires screen.  So the WB-to-front trick really does
work, even if it doesn't save you a lot of time.
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  --Andy Church

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.../Mailing cists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4856 re: priority(once more)
9/13/93 04:24 72/ "- Carsten Berggreen - Denmark -" <[e-mail]>
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Once again, Berggreen is here...

<Andrew Church wrote:>
>   I made a little test program to test this out.  It opened a 320x200x6
> screen and executed a simple loop 500000 times, then opened a 320x200x1
> screen and did the same thing.  In both cases, the running time of the loop
> was 7.5 seconds.
>
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>   So, it shouldn't make a difference whether the Imagine screen is at the
> front or not, as long as all the Imagine stuff is in Fast RAM.
>
>   --Andy Church

BEEEEEPPPP!!!  WRONG!

The problem is NOT and I repeat is NOT lores (320) in 1 or 6 bitplanes...

It's the HIRES (640) that gives the troubles...
Command:
4 bitplanes on an "old" amiga 500, takes ALL the CPU time!!!!

BUT you were also right, that this has ONLY something to say when the code
is in the CHIP-RAM, and this again means that people with enough FAST-RAM(32bit)
has no problem...

Back to people like me...

I have an Amiga 500 with 2.5 meg (1meg CHIP and 1.5 meg "FAKE-FAST MEM")
The reason for this name is th
And if I stay at the Imagine screen while tracing, my rendering REALLY takes
time...  why?

I'll explain a few reasons:

ic and samples)

Command:
3. Imagine has to access the the slow-mem in order to access the data..
   as long as I have this available
   to me.  And Imagine does that too! It uses the CHIPMEM for octrees or what
   ever it is putting there? (Am I right?)


To test this on YOUR machine, you should try to go to the detail editor and
make a LARGE object (an object with 3000 faces or perhaps higher?)

then watch how SLOOOOOWLY the image appears in the 3D view (upper right)
Command:

remember honot ... then you should be a VERY happy person)

That's it and that's that!

Signed
---------------------------------------aenget 16A                                         -
-          8464  Galten          "It isn't the equipment alone, it  -
-  ---------------------------------------------------
- A true fan of Amiga, Coca-Cola, Imagine and good looking females! -
---------------------------------------------------------------------




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..Chris 'Slothman' Stoy [phone]" <[e-mail]
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>From: "- Carsten Berggreen - Denmark -" <[e-mail]>

>I have an Amiga 500 with FAKE-FAST MEM")
>The reason for this name is that its internal and 16bit which makes it slow...

Since the 500 only has a 68016 bit.  You'll gain no speed increase by using
32 bit FAST mem unless you have an 020 or better accelerator.  You may be
gette belly looks like FAST ram to the system, but is clocked to the
-----
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have ALL your FAST ram on the expansion bus.

>And if I stay at the Imagine screen while tracing, my rendering REALLY takes
>time...  why?

>I'll explain a few reasons:
>1. Imagine uses 16 colors (640x256) that's HIRES
>2. The slow-mem is sowhich fx. means graphic and
Command:
>samples)
>3. Imagine has to access the the slow-mem in order to access the data..
>  ve to use anything available
>   to me.  And Imagine does that too! It uses the CHIPMEM for octrees or what
>   ever it is putting there? (Am I right?)

>Signed
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>- Address: Carste    "It isn't the equipment alone, it  -
>-          Denmark                is also what YOU can do with it!" -
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>- A true fan of Amiga, Coca-Cola, Imagine and good looking females! ---

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Stoy  (aka [e-mail])

Digital 0 of 37 (27%)
-----
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      and is being forwarded to the list by me. Please be certain when replying
      to IML posts that your REPLY function is grabbing the correct address:
      [e-mail]
      If not, be certain to either change the address, or at least Cc: a copy
      there. Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail]
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 17:04:18 -0500 (CDT)
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Subject: Re: 040 and Imagine
To: Dave Wickard <[e-mail]>
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
Mime-Vame speed problem on my a4000 (as anyone with an 040 will)
> but a friend sent me a new math library for the 040.  It replaces the
> non floating point library with one that uses the 040 FPU correctly.
Command:
> then any non fpu program that calls tn 040 equiped machine.  Its pretty small and
> I can mail copies to (a small number hopefully) anyone who asks.
>
> Note: yois to speed up your
> system.                ^^^
                         Why?

> -R-
>
Command:
> [e-mail]  Rob Borsari  "Bourne to be Wild"


        Please send it me.  I also have an A4000 and woulpes
out using any Essence textures.

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail]52%)
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NOTE: This post was sent to the imy me. Please be certain when replying
      to IML posts that your REPLY function is grabbing the correct address:
      imagiin to either change the address, or at least Cc: a copy
      there. Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 11 Sep 1993 14:17:58 -0400 (EDT)
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From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: 040 and Imagine
To: [e-mail]
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"[e-mail]"

please email me a uuencoded 040lib
thank you !
jason
[e-mail]   <- use this address!
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4860 re: priority(once more)
9/13/93 18:12 64/ [e-mail]>
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You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through throblem is NOT and I repeat is NOT lores (320) in 1 or 6 bitplanes...
>
>It's the HIRES (640) that gives the troubles...
>4 bieePRand all its memory wind up in 16-bit RAM.

Command:
>Back to people like me...
>
>I have an Amiga 500 with 2.5 meg (1meg CHIP and 1.5 meg "FAKE-FAST MEM")
>The reason for this name is that its internal and 16bit which makes it slow...

  I don't kared to Chip RAM?

>And if I stay at the Imagine screen while tracing, my rendering REALLY takes
>time...  why?
Command:
>1. Imagine uses 16 colors (640x256) that's HIRES

  Yeah, but this shouldn't make too much difference, unless...

>2. The slhich fx. means graphic and samples)

  ... but I don't think so.  Then again, I don't know a lot about how the
Command:
A500 hardware is set up.  (I think somebody else said something about this,
but I don't remember what.)

>3. Imagine has to acceg as I have this little mem, I'll have to use anything available
>   to me.  And Imagine does that too! It uses the CHIPMEM for octrees or what
>   ever it is putting there? (Am I right?)

  1.5M should be enough for Imagine and its data...

Command:
>To test this on YOUR machine, you should try to go to the detail editor and
>make a LARGE object (an object with 3000 facesrhaps higher?)
>
>then watch how SLOOOOOWLY the image appears in the 3D view (upper right)
>
>remember how long it took and d go to
>the workbench while it's drawing... (you'll probarbly see a LARGE diffence in
>the drawing time, if not ... then you Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4861 Aminet. What is it?
9/13/93 18:04 5/ [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
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What is Aminet and where is it?

steveZ

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.../M4862 no subject (file transmission)
9/13/93 21:59 62/ "David A. Rollins" <[e-mail]>
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Cybergraf Synthiotics, a Wilmington, NC  based virtual asing a set of professional 3D objects in various computer
formats in the next few weeks.

The objects are designed to be useand IBM
computers capable of producing three-dimensional virtual reality graphics.

Specifically, the first release will be pr
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Macintosh.

The first object set will be of a fully furnished two bedroom house. All
components of the house will be objects including the exteriors.

FEATURES:

2 complete bedrooms
1 full bathroom
1 half bathroom
Command:
1 breakfast noon
1 laundry room
1 living room

The Amiga object disk is tentatively priced at $100. The IBM object disk is
tentatively priced at $200. The Macintosh set is tentatively priced at $500.
The Sun and SGI object sets are tentatively priced at approximatee objects not fully implemented will
be supplied interiors in the additional series disks.

We have designed these objects to be superior in every aspect. They are
definitely the most professional objects I have seen. We have rendered
Command:
all oy job. All of the attributes and textures are generically Imagine and
Lightwave.

At this time, it is not necessary for you teased with it.

In addition, we are available to create custom objects for those who may
have specific needs.

Command:
For more information, please contact:

Richard Harris - Cybergraf Synthiotics (Propel Animations) @ 762-5776
David Rollins  - We are now accepting pre-orders.

Demonstration renderings will be posted a few days prior to the official
release. They mayble Amiga format created with S-PIC.
Command:

Till then..........
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/[e-mail]>
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the corrected one.


Cybergraf Synthiotics, a Wilmington, NC  based virtual reality company,
will be releasing a set of pormats in the next few weeks.

The objects are designed to be used in SGI, Sun, Macintosh, Amiga, and IBM
computers capable  virtual reality graphics.
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Specifically, the first release will be for those systems running Impulse's
Imagine software for Iial release, the same
objects will be ported to Sun and SGI in WAVEFRONT format as well as DXF for
Macintosh.

The first obshed two bedroom house. All
components of the house will be objects including the exteriors.

FEATURES:
Command:

2 comp1 half bathroom
1 breakfast nook
1 dining room
1 kitchen
1 laundry room
1 living room

Command:
The Amiga object disk i.
The Sun and SGI object sets are tentatively priced at approximately $1000.

All prices are tentative and Cybergraf Synthiotics reserves the right to alter
prices without prior notice.

The object set is only the first in a continuing series.
99% of the objects are complete throughout, but a few may not have interiors
such as the washer and dryer. Those objects not fully implemented will
Command:
be supplied interiors in the additional series disks.

We have designed these objects to be superior in every aspect. They are
definitely the most professional objects I have seen. We have rendered
all of them many times to make sure that they will be what you expect
for any job. All of the attributes and textures are generically Imagine and
Lightw

At this time, it is not necessary for you to own Essence, though I highly
recommend that you purchase it. We are quite pleaIn addition, we are available to create custom objects for those who may
have specific needs.

For more information, please chard Harris - Cybergraf Synthiotics (Propel Animations) @ 762-5776
David Rollins  - Cybergraf Synthiotics (Desktop Video Produc15

We are now accepting pre-orders.
Command:

Demonstration renderings will be posted a few days prior to the official
release. They may be found on AMINET at that time. I will post them in two
formats, JPEG and a runnable Amiga format created with S-PIC.

Till then..........
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail]1400.3.1.4864 Re: Aminet. What is it?
9/13/93 23:15 16/ Johan Andersson <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 16 (62%)
-----
You ar of archive where you can find various stuff for amiga.
for example fish-disk, pics, objects, and much much more, is it PD
they probarbly have it. There are several aminet servers around the
world, they all carry the same archive (almost) you only have nd wuarchive.wustl.edu or nic.funet.fi, these too are
two of the biggest archive around, the path to
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aminet on wu.. is /pub/systems/amiga/aminet
the path t
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4865 Re: Aminet. What is it?
9/14/93 00:38 11/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
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On Mon, 13 Sep 1993, Steve Ziolkowski wrote:

>
> What is Aminet and where is it?
>
> steveZ
>


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4866 Anim facts needed
9/13/93 17:26 42/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
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>
>Perhaps MainActor converts any loaded anim to the fastest format .
>When you save, you get your choice of formats.
>
I really don't know. I can change save formats, but MA seems to load
Anim's as is, without changing them to another format.
>
>What are you deltas like?  1%?  What machine are you running on?
>
I have no way that I am aware of to see what my deltas are, but if you
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could enlighten me on how to do this, I'd rather appreciate it! I'm
currently running a 50 MHz (030/882) A2000 with 11 MB (scram).
>
>I'm running a 25Mhz 3000 with 14 megs.  I can't get near 60fps in
>368x482x6 with anim unless the scrreen delta is miserably low.
>
Once again, I can see the problem, I just don't kI can do about
it! Do you have some kind of utility that will allow this? Is there
something on the Aminet I can get to do that unknowns, eh?
Command:
>
>That's why I suspect MainActor is converting whatever is loads (anim5or7)
>to a faster format.  That's why you get the same playback rate for both.
>
Could be, but that's not what the docs state. In ViewTek, using the sams line? I'd like to know, for sure!
>
Command:
>Jason K.
>
Warm regards,
Michel

                                  ||
                                __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
[e-mail] __  __ are mine   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
Command:          ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: imagif 77 (12%)
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You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details). bbx.rain.COM (V1.16-T7/Amiga)
        id AA029tc; Mon, 13 Sep 93 01:39:34 PST
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Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
From: John Foust - Syndesive.COM>
To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Running commentary

To: >internet: [e-mail]

>I've complained in private mail to Robin Chytil, too.
>Sounds like you don't like it either, when someone quotes too much.
>
Command:
I could care less about petty matters of disparate opinion...
>
>I've love to hear the results of any experiments you a floppy disc.  Short of
>physical removal methods, I think you'd be surprised how much they
>can withstand.  Static requiresk between
>you and the balloon - much less anything that would generate enough
>magnetism to affect a floppy.
>
Command:
So, you think that is'nt the reason for my fried disks, fine. I don't
care, I believe my point was that certain precautions need to be taken,
like safe hex, and certain professional standards are expected from those
who proclaim to be experts. Packing unsleeved disks is just plain dumb,
and compounding it with gritty, static laden material only makes it worse.
>
>As for the moderator's opinion, go ahead and ask him.  I'm sure he'll
>tell you there's plenty of messages he'd rather not see on the list.
>I'm sure if he thinks I'm out of line, he'll tell me.  So far, he
>hasn't, and in fact, he's found many of my postings *very funny.*
Command:
>
I'm sure that you do have a sense of humor, but my point was that if you
have a beef, let's have an impartial third party settle the dispute to a
mutually agreeable congress of of opinion, and not settle for childish
rantings and nes for a signature, whatever you percieve is
Command:
your problem, and I suggest the above actions be taken if you feel that
strongly about it. Seeing as you are the only person to have a problem,
maybe we should see if anybody else has a comment toe making "gee I didn't know that" -type comments, please
>consider NOT posting them to the list.  Use private mail instead.
>
It's a process called learning, and being respectful to your teachers. I
know that may seem old fashioned, but I try to respect, through Christian
love principles, my fellows. That does'nt mean that I always agree on
Command:
everything, just that I care for you, and all the other fine people out
there, or else I would'nt even respond.
>
>And I didn't need Biblical, Chinese or Indian wisdom to figure that
>out.
>
I'm glad, you are being sought out by the Maker of all things, whether
you realize it or not. Peace, prosperity, and long life to you and yours.


Command:
                                  ||
                                __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
[e-mail] __  __ are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4868 Re: no subject (file transmission)
9/14/93 01:00 18/ [e-mail]
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David A. Rollins writes:

> Specifically, the first release will be for those systems running Impulse's
> Imagine software for IBM and Amiga...

> The Amiga object disk is tentatively priced at $100. The IBM object disk is
> tentatively priced at $200. The Macintosh set is tentatively priced at $500.
> The Sun and SGI object sets are tentatively priced at approximately $1000.

Interesting price structure.  I wonder how long companies will be able
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to do this sort of thing -- in this case, won't any PC Imagine user
simply buy the Amiga version and take it to an Amiga to save the
objects onto MS-DOS disks?  (And can't at least some of the other
platforms run the Imagine objects through a converter or two and get
objects in a 3D format that they can use reasonably well?)

--
Evan Kirchhoff, [e-mail]
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4869 PD Imagine Objects?
9/14/93 02:39 11/ [e-mail] (Greg Pringle)
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  I'm looking for some PD imagine objects, but I haven't been able to find
many through FTP.  Am I just looking in the wrong place? These are the
ones I know of:

   wuarchive.wustl.edu:  \systems\amiga\boing\incoming\imagine
                         \systems\amiga\boing\video\imagine  (or something like that)

 Thanks for any pointers,

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      Greg Pringle
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4870 Regarding Your Comments about 3D Objects
9/14/93 02:10 97/ "David A. Rollins" <[e-mail]>
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Hello [e-mail],
>
> David A. Rollins writes:
>
> > Specifically, the first release will be for those systems running Impulse's
> > Imagine software for IBM and Amiga...
>
> > The Amiga object disk is tentatively priced at $100. The IBM object disk is
> > tentatively priced at $200. The Macintosh set is tentatively priced at $500.
> > The Sun and SGI object sets are tentatively priced at approximately $1000.
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>
> Interesting price structure.

Not really. I will explain.

> I wonder how long companies will be able
> to do this sort of thing --

I'll tell you.

Command:
> in this case, won't any PC Imagine user
> simply buy the Amiga version and take it to an Amiga to save the
> objects onto MS-DOS disks?  (And can't at least some of the other
> platforms run the Imagine objects through a converter or two and get
> objects in a 3D format that they can use reasonably well?)

Quite possibly so, but that would be a violation of the licensing
agreement.

Now, Evan, I shall explain the pricing structure.
Command:

Porting the object to other platforms is not as easy as using a
converter. The objects contain individual attributes as well as
maps that do not always translate across platforms, even for those
other platforms that may have some version of Impulse's Imagine.

That's the main reason. It takes time to make the conversions, align
the maps, and conform to each computer platform's little idiosyncrasies.

Another reason is that these objects, as you may well soon see are
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not like any objects that have been available before for 3D rendering
enthusiasts and professionals. I know. I have spent hundreds of
dollars purchasing objects only to be disappointed and not being able
to use them because the quality is so poor. Our objects are very
very professional and there will be no denying it when people see
them once they are released.

A third reason is our time and effort, not only in creating these
objects but in doing the research required to determine what the
professional virtualist needs to complete a professional presentation.
Command:

The last reason I will discuss, although not truly the last, is that
because these objects are aimed at the professional, the price should
reflect that. To paraphrase a writer quoted in Computer Graphics World,
in defense of the Amiga and the Video Toaster, it is unfortunate that
professionals put great emphasis on the price of professional goods.
We would like to sell our objects to everybody, but there are many,
a majority, who believe that because something is inexpensive that it
cannot be of any value. As a result, the objects are priced to attract
the professional who otherwise would not give them a first consideration.
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The pricing also supports the fact that if it is too cheap, then the
temptation to spread them to all parts of the globe by the purchaser
is lessened.

We are adamantly against piracy, obviously. We understand that there
will always be the chance of the objects being distributed illegally.
Our pricing structure assures us that we shall make enough income to
be able to deliver more objects and updates for those who need to use
our objects legally.

Command:
This is not a game.

Here is a suggestion for you. Ask any designer who operates a
SUN or Silicon Graphics Workstation in his business what the software
costs to operate it. The most widely used graphic software packages
for these computers run as high as $20K. Twenty-Thousand Dollars for
a piece of software!


Now, if you told that designer that he could buy professional 3D
Command:
objects for that computer for $100 he not only would not believe you,
but he would probably get angry with you for wasting his time. Asking
$1000 for all that it takes to create, modify, adjust, tweek, and
port these objects is not too much to ask. In fact, time will tell, but
we have already been informed that $1000 may be too inexpensive to
be taken seriously on the higher platforms. We shall see.

We are not greedy. All of our efforts are not self-serving. With our
success, if it happens, we intend to devote part of the proceeds from
the sales to a scholarship fund for students who desire to study
Command:
computer graphics and virtual reality simulation science.

I hope this answers your question. I hope you are satisfied. If not,
don't buy the product when it is released.

PS - Don't steal it, either.
>
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4871 priority(once again!!)
9/14/93 03:15 44/ "- Carsten Berggreen - Denmark -" <[e-mail]>
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Once more and once again!!!!!!  (this seems to take very loooooong!)

Okay, now I think I'll write the very last about this (short I hope, too!)

Andrew Church wrote, that Imagine and the system shouldn't take up the hole
1.5 meg (fake-fast) I've got on my machine.

well that's right, but the problem is that my "rendering data" does ALSO have
to be in some kind of memory, right?

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That means that it'll use ANYTHING available (including my chipmem!!!)

Ofcause that's lovely when your in a lack of memeory like I, BUT it ALSO
slows your rendering process (CHIPMEM = 16BIT) (FAKEFAST = FAKECHIP)

(Why fake-fast = fake-chip? Well, mine is internal and is somehow attached
 to the DMA-bus, so it's all clutched(?) together in some sort of way? &:-(  )

Anyway, I think we've all understood the point:

Command:
Some of us HAS the equipment, others don't...  bad luck for me I guess... &:-(
But HEY! That isn't gonna stop ME!

So Andrew Church and everybody else...:

I've enjoyed this talk (writing) with you all!!!!!!!

But I think this talk about hardware should be ended now...  or?
(An exception:  if someone has the solution to HOW I could speed up my A500
 with about 10000.00000.00000 times, low cost ofcause....  &;-)   )
Command:

One thing is certain:

I'll be back!!!

Signed
---------------------------------------------------------------------
- Address: Carsten Berggreen         E-mail: [e-mail] -
-          Hirsevaenget 16A                                         -
-          8464  Galten          "It isn't the equipment alone, it  -
Command:
-          Denmark                is also what YOU can do with it!" -
---------------------------------------------------------------------
- A true fan of Amiga, Coca-Cola, Imagine and good looking females! -
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4872 Seagate ST-3600A HD?
9/14/93 07:55 24/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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        To all,

        I'm investigating prices on the DPS PAR and the Seagate ST-3600A
        Hard drive combo.  Didn't someone post a message here a while back
        about having a discount for IML members for the Seagate drive?  I
        thought it was David Watters.  I sent a number of inquiries to him
        and evidently my mail didn't get through.  Can the person that
        posted the offer please get back to me at their earliest
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        convenience.

        Thanks,

        Dale



       _____________________________^_____________________________
       dale r. rogers
Command:

       Building Design & Maintenance              MailStop: LR24A4
       [e-mail]             Tel: [phone]
                                    .
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4873 Re: Regarding Your Comments about 3D Obj
9/14/93 10:25 42/ John Foust - Syndesis Corporation <[e-mail]
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To: >internet: [e-mail]

"David A. Rollins" <[e-mail]> writes:
> Imagine software for IBM and Amiga. Following the initial release,
> the same objects will be ported to Sun and SGI in WAVEFRONT format as
> well as DXF for Macintosh.
...
> Porting the object to other platforms is not as easy as using a
> converter. The objects contain individual attributes as well as
> maps that do not always translate across platforms, even for those
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> other platforms that may have some version of Impulse's Imagine.
>
> That's the main reason. It takes time to make the conversions, align
> the maps, and conform to each computer platform's little idiosyncrasies.

DXF isn't very good at retaining high-quality 3D information such as
smooth shading.  In fact, it confounds it.  It stores no color or
surface map info, for example.

And unless you tailor your DXF data to the quirks of each particular
Command:
program's DXF importing code, you're going to lose that precious
extra information that you might be able to squeeze through the eye
of the DXF needle.  Or more likely, you miss the eye of the needle
completely and *no* information comes through.

To do what you claim, you'll need copies of each of the 3D programs
that you intend to work with (AutoCAD $3K, 3D Studio $3K, Wavefront
$30K, Electric Image $8K, Strata $2K, etc.)  So you're saying you own
or have easy access to above-average PCs, Macs, and SGIs equipped
with this software?
Command:

There are plenty of reasons why Viewpoint sells models for $500 each.
(Believe it or not, many of their models have no colors and no maps.)
In my experience, modeling companies have been forced to adopt
uniform cross-platform pricing because of the existence of
translators, both those built-in to each 3D program plus standalone
converters.  Secondly, they soon learn that they need skilled
operators for each platform they intend to support.  I think you
should address these questions before you start work on your
corporate scholarship fund.
Command:


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4874 UNSUBSCRIBE
9/14/93 15:18 2/ [e-mail] (Steve Schulz)
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UNSUBSCRIBE

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4875 Re: Seagate ST-3600A HD?
9/14/93 15:36 28/ [e-mail]@email.sp.paramax.com
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On Tue, 14 Sep 1993, Dale R Rogers wrote:

>
>
>       To all,
>
>       I'm investigating prices on the DPS PAR and the Seagate ST-3600A
>       Hard drive combo.  Didn't someone post a message here a while back
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>       about having a discount for IML members for the Seagate drive?  I
>       thought it was David Watters.  I sent a number of inquiries to him
>       and evidently my mail didn't get through.  Can the person that
>       posted the offer please get back to me at their earliest
>       convenience.
>
>       Thanks,
>
>       Dale

Command:

        My local dealer just revealed to me that Seagate has dicontinued
that particular drive.  Go figure.

        Cyrus J. Kalbrener



Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4876 No Subject Given
9/15/93 06:49 10/ Adam Benjamin <[e-mail]>
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While we are thinking on this...
I have a 4000 and an using an old 1084 monitor.  I would like to
switch to the VGA monitor I have but I was afraid of how much mode
promotion might slow down the system. (besides the fact that most of
my games would become unusable 8-)
Does forcing the video to 31Khz slow down the CPU much?
(will Imagine promote to non-lace??)

Adam

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4877 mode promotion
9/15/93 07:30 12/ [e-mail]
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Hello Adam;
        I am using a vga monitor and have not noticed a slowdown aon my 1200
unless I set my colors up then I wait a lot. I found that most applications
like imagine and vertex and several others I have tend to stay in low res.
I did find a program on the net that forced mode promotion of imagine and
it seems to work great on my vga monitor but when I use certain brushmaps
and render them they do not display well. using viewtek I can display most
everything gifs iffs, etc. but jpeg stuff doesnt work. I even found some data types so I could use gifs and jpegs for workbench screens the gifs are fine.
anyway if you want this little mode promoter when I get home I will write down
the info and mail you the name etc. I really like it.
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                                                Good Luck
                                                  Lesk
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Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4878 Monitors and mode promotion
9/15/93 08:39 19/ "Ross Knepper" <[e-mail]>
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>while we are thinking on this...
>I have a 4000 and an using an old 1084 monitor.  I would like to
>switch to the VGA monitor I have but I was afraid of how much mode
>promotion might slow down the system. (besides the fact that most of
>my games would become unusable 8-)
>Does forcing the video to 31Khz slow down the CPU much?
>(will Imagine promote to non-lace??)
>
>Adam

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You should get a multiscan monitor.  It's more expensive, but you can then turn
off mode promotion and go back to 15KHz mode.  I don't think it causes much
slowdown, but I can't test it right now, being not at home.  Yes, Imagine does
become non-laced.  For some good deals on multiscan monitors (and other stuff),
look in the latest AmigaWorld, in the Grapevine ad. (I think that the name of
it.)  The A1960 is a good monitor, IMHO.

 --Ross Knepper

Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4879 Monitors and mode promotion
9/15/93 09:45 22/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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Someone wrote:

> >(will Imagine promote to non-lace??)

I've been able to promote Imagine to most any mode in the display
database.  (There are various PD commodities to accomplish this).  I can
also increase the resolution somewhat: I have been able to promote to
896 horizontal pixels in SUPER72 mode.  However, there seems to be a bug
in Imagine when dealing with large vertical resolutions.  If I promote
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to a vertical res beyond 400 pixels, it starts up OK, and most things
work fine, but attempting to rotate objects using the mouse will crash
the system.  This effect happens at 401 pixels or above, but not at 400
or below.  It also doesn't happen when increasing the horizontal res,
only the vertical.  This stops me from using the entire 628 vertical
pixels of SUPER72, which is a bummer.  I hope Imagine 3.0 will fix this
(or provide a way to directly open the screen in any display database
mode).  It'd also be nice to have a way to increase the default font
size used by imagine, since in super72 superhires, an 8 pixel font is
*small*.
Command:

  - steve
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4880 Unsubscribe
9/15/93 12:52 1/ "Brian Akey"  <[e-mail]>
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Take me off the list
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4881 Re: Monitors and mode promotion
9/15/93 12:53 24/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
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> or below.  It also doesn't happen when increasing the horizontal res,
> only the vertical.  This stops me from using the entire 628 vertical
> pixels of SUPER72, which is a bummer.  I hope Imagine 3.0 will fix this
> (or provide a way to directly open the screen in any display database
> mode).  It'd also be nice to have a way to increase the default font
> size used by imagine, since in super72 superhires, an 8 pixel font is
> *small*.
>
>   - steve
>
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I'm pretty sure that imagine 3.0 will not let you open editors on
screens from the database. I spoke with Mike H. on the Phone a few weeks
ago and asked that very question. His answer was no, with an explanation
about how imagine was currently written and what would need to be changed...

Apparantly this is a popular request. I know I'd really like to run the
detail editor at 800X600. But I don't think we'll see it in 3.0. Now
if enough folks request it for 4.0.....

Command:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

steve lombardi        | Hey Erl. It's me. I was just in-burrito.
[e-mail]   |               -Beavis
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4882 Imagine the next Generation
9/15/93 16:23 5/ Graeme Mc Donough <[e-mail]>
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The Ultimate question....     Is Imagine3.0 out yet???
Or is it already out yet???
If so, How do I get a software Upgrade???


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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4883 Re: Monitors and mode promotion
9/15/93 16:21 9/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
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Imagine promotes fine using only the builtin OS mode-promotion
(Prefs/Icontrol.)  It's still only 640x400 tho - I'm pretty sure that
size is hard-coded to Imagine since no matter what you bump your WB up
to (Overscan prefs), it stays 640x400 - unlike some other apps that use
your "Text" overscan setting.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4884 TAKE ME OFF THE LIST
9/15/93 16:45 4/ "U. N. derGrad" <[e-mail]>
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Sorry, but could you take me off the mailing list... I'm getting warned by
my SA.

thanks.
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4885 textures vs. memory
9/15/93 17:11 29/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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I know that if you have several objects each of which use the same
brushmap, Imagine will load the brushmap N times instead of simply
loading it once and using it in all places (which can waste a lot of
RAM). [1]

Does anyone know if this also holds true for textures?  I have an object
which has about 300 sub-objects, and currently about 75% of those have
textures.  It takes a whole lot of memory to render this.  I know that I
can probably trim down the number of textures quite a bit if I make
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several axis using the desired textures (with "apply to children" set)
and then make my objects sub-objects of those.  However, that has two
negative effects: it prevents me from using another, more logical object
grouping, and it requires a lot of work to modify the way it is set up
now.  So I would rather not do it if it isn't going to buy me anything.

I half suspect that Imagine only loads textures once, no matter how
many times they are used, but I don't really know.

  - steve
Command:

[1] One could make this same argument about the stage editor.  If you
use an object more than once, there is no need to load it multiple
times.  Imagine could keep one copy in RAM, along with the
size/location/alignment vectors for the copies, and just use pointers to
the original data.  In some cases, that would save a *lot* of RAM, I
think.  There might be problems here with cycle objects, but not for
"normal" ones where the internal data is always the same and no effects
are used to change the object's actual shape.
Command:

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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4886 RE: Imagine the next Generation
9/15/93 18:00 9/ [e-mail]
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>The Ultimate question....
        Well I called about two days ago. they told me a month and said
they were not under any pressure to get it out any sooner...
Yes I was dissapointed by that response. If anyone has better news I will
be glad to hear about it. seems they have been losing a lot of people to
lightwave and a few other packages due to delays and what seem to be false
release dates.
                                                Good news welcome
                                                    Lesk
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4887 Uh oh more memory...
9/15/93 18:12 9/ [e-mail]
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hello all;
        I seem to have just passed a learning level or something. All of
the sudden everything I do comes up with insufficient memory.(RAM)
I have been looking at some accelerators for the 1200 and ram seems to
have taken quite a jump in the last few months.
        Any ideas as to what might be the best choice would really help.

                                                Thanks
                                                 Lesk
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4888 Re: Monitors and mode promotion
9/15/93 20:19 31/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
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Forwarded message:
> [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup) writes:
> Imagine promotes fine using only the builtin OS mode-promotion
> (Prefs/Icontrol.)  It's still only 640x400 tho - I'm pretty sure that
> size is hard-coded to Imagine since no matter what you bump your WB up
> to (Overscan prefs), it stays 640x400 - unlike some other apps that use
> your "Text" overscan setting.

The Picasso II's promotion lets me open Imagine 2.0 on a 1024x768 screen or
even 1280x1024 (or whatever choice I happen to make.)  This is NOT a tiny
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640x400 thing sitting on a bunch of empty screen space, but a true 1024x768
display.

As Steve Koren mentioned, though, Imagine suffers from a few headaches when
the vertical resolution exceeds 400 lines.  I've had odd display artifacts
when moving objects with the mouse, and I think once or twice I had Imagine
crash on me, so it's making SOME assumptions about the display size.

Opinionated stuff ahead:

Command:
I don't mind a bit of a wait, but Imagine 3.0 had better offer proper
display size awareness or make a joke of every competing product out there;
otherwise I will think twice about sinking my money into a program that
continues to offer good features but forces me to use what to me are
extremely low resolution displays and an interface that is literally years
behind the times.

Just my two cents.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4889 RE: Imagine the next Generation
9/15/93 23:31 4/ Tim Salazar <[e-mail]>
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Not losing people, just some understand the world of writing software and are
using the best software available at date.

Tim
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4890 Re: textures vs. memory
9/16/93 10:23 56/ [e-mail] ()
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On Sep 15,  6:11pm, Steve Koren wrote:
> Subject: textures vs. memory
>
> I know that if you have several objects each of which use the same
> brushmap, Imagine will load the brushmap N times instead of simply
> loading it once and using it in all places (which can waste a lot of
> RAM). [1]
>
> Does anyone know if this also holds true for textures?  I have an object
> which has about 300 sub-objects, and currently about 75% of those have
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> textures.  It takes a whole lot of memory to render this.  I know that I
> can probably trim down the number of textures quite a bit if I make
> several axis using the desired textures (with "apply to children" set)
> and then make my objects sub-objects of those.  However, that has two
> negative effects: it prevents me from using another, more logical object
> grouping, and it requires a lot of work to modify the way it is set up
> now.  So I would rather not do it if it isn't going to buy me anything.

I did it. I had an object with more than 500 subobjects, all with the bump
texture.
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In fact they were all rock blocks, assembled to be a kind of arena.
As the rendering time was too long (about 70 hours per image on an A3000 with
'040 accelerator, and ate too much memory (about 22 MB), I applied the bump
texture to the parent axis, with Apply-to-children setting, and removed the
texture on every object (took about 1 hour to do it).

I DIDN'T NOTICED ANY DIFFERENCE, same time and same memory needs.

So, I would advice you to not do it.

Command:
If you have problems with the amount of memory it takes, and you are using brush
maps, try to reduce their size.

>
>-- End of excerpt from Steve Koren

Robin


--
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Robin Chytil, Staff Engineer
      Mediterranean Distribution Territory
      Silicon Graphics

      Vmail: 5-9389           Email: [e-mail]
      Tel:   [phone]    Fax :  [phone]
                                                       \|/
                                                       @ @
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---------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo-------





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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4891 Re: Seagate ST-3600A HD?
9/16/93 05:42 26/ David Watters <[e-mail]>
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>       My local dealer just revealed to me that Seagate has dicontinued
> that particular drive.  Go figure.
>
>       Cyrus J. Kalbrener

Yes, the 3600A has been discontinued.

However, it has been superceeded by the ST3655A.  Same exact specs, except
for 1 less physical platter (thus a little faster).
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I have been using the 3655A with the PAR for a couple months without any
hardware hitches.  I have some software "features" in version 1.05, but
I don't know if it is related to the drive or not.

HEY DPS!  Where is my software update???
I sent the registration in months ago.

             _     ___
David    ~  |_|,--'   |@,__
Watters   ~   ( )-_______-()`-
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--
David R. Watters ([e-mail])    Cranel Inc. Development & Engineering
"Porsche.  The very name is, to many, the last word in sports cars. Any car
 blessed with these magic seven letters is sure to be the very best. Period!"
                        - Car and Driver, January 1993
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4892 Hey..Youse Guys
9/16/93 06:26 45/ [e-mail] (Dave Wickard)
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And Welcome Again, Imagineers!   :-)



If you haven't yet seen Mark Thompson's absolutely
stunning display of grass movement demonstrated in his
animation Windmill.lha, I highly recommend you grab it.
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It's awesome.


And one other quick note, remember... your IML Guide has
the proper UNSUBSCRIBE information if you'd like to be
removed from the list. Anytime you'd like a copy of the
latest version of the IML Guide, drop me a line and I
will send you one.

Command:
Send your request to:

[e-mail]


with the word "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the Subject: line.
It takes only one business day, and you will receive
an confirmation letter.

DO NOT POST YOUR REQUEST TO FULL MAILING LIST!
Command:

You will have hundreds of sites sending you IFFs of
unspeakable acts involving digusting species.
(or was that digusting acts involving unspeakable species?)

Nothing more to report at this time, keep your eyes open...
I may have something to report next week regarding
Imagine 3.0. (How's THAT for a vague teaser?  ;-)


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Dave Wickard  [phone]    "Gamera craves fire.
[e-mail]         But it goes straight to his hips."
[e-mail]        -Mystery Science Theater 3000
[e-mail]
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4893 RE: Imagine the next Generation
9/16/93 07:02 20/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
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> Not losing people, just some understand the world of writing software and are
> using the best software available at date.

Well, there are probably better renderers out there than Imagine
(certainly Lightwave, probably R3D).  But moving to another is not as
easy as it sounds, especially for us hobbyist-folk.  The expense of
purchasing a new renderer is considerable, and then there is a huge time
cost for getting over the learning curve with a new system, and the
potential loss of many objects & attribute files I have build up.
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Anyway, right now Essence I and II are only available for Imagine, so
that means that Imagine is the only system even worth considering,
imperfect although it may be :-) If the Apex folks port EI/II to R3D,
and R3D was cheap enough, I'd probably move.  (Or alternately, a
standalone version of LW with EI/II).  Impulse ought to be _awfully_
nice to Apex though, because I suspect the only reason many people are
still using Imagine is because of Essence.

  - steve
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4894 Hello?...???
9/16/93 11:09 13/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
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Hello?

Is anybody out there?  Awful quiet these days.

Does anyone have any questions they want answered from Impulse?  I am gonna
go ahead and fax in a sheet of questions like Mike suggested I do.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]
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"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
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.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.4895 DPS PAR drive info
9/16/93 11:04 38/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
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        Re: DPS PAR certified drives

        To interested parties,

        I just got off the phone with DPS about the drives that are
        certified with PAR.  I ordered my PAR yesterday and now need to
        find a drive.  The woman I spoke to said that ONLY the 3600A
        is certified to work with the PAR.  I asked her about the
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        discontined status of the 3600A and whether the ST-3655A replaces
        it now.  She restated that ONLY the 3600A is certfied to work with
        the board.  I asked her if it will be "a while" before another
        drive is certified.  She said "yes".  I did not press her to
        quantify "a while".  I work in the software development arena and
        know full well what "a while" means.  It's time to find a ST-3600A.


        David Watters,

Command:
        I got your response from last post, but I never got the
        information regarding the current price of the ST-3600A drive.
        Excuse me for posting a private message to the list.  My private
        messages are either not getting to you, or your responses are not
        making it back to me.  Please send me the drive price and contact
        information.

        Thanks,

        Dale
Command:


       _____________________________^_____________________________
       dale r. rogers

       Building Design & Management               MailStop: LR24A4
       [e-mail]             Tel: [phone]
                                    .
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